Interview with Boris Cyrulnik: “We must help pregnant women, surround them, it is the babies who will benefit!” “

Boris Cyrulnik is a neuropsychiatrist and specialist in human behavior. Chairman of the committee of experts on the “first 1000 days of the child”, he submitted a report to the President of the Republic at the beginning of September, which led to an increase in paternity leave to 28 days. He looks back with us on fifty years of studying parent-child links.

Parents: Do you have a memory of Parents magazine?

Boris Cyrulnik: In fifty years of practice, I have often read it to see both what the problems parents are facing and to read articles on the latest medical or societal advances around the family or babies. I was questioned there two or three times, each time during medical advances. Notably in 1983, when we first demonstrated that the baby could hear low frequencies in the mother’s uterus from the 27th week of amenorrhea *. You have to realize that at the time, it was revolutionary! This disturbed a lot of people for whom the baby, until he spoke, could not understand anything.

How were babies viewed at the time?

B.C. : Neither more nor less than digestive tracts. You have to realize: during my university studies, we were taught that a baby cannot suffer because (supposedly) his nerve endings had not finished their development (!). Until the 80s and 90s, babies were immobilized and operated on without anesthesia. During my studies and those of my wife who was also a doctor, we reduced fractures, stitches or removed tonsils in babies under one year old without any anesthesia. Fortunately, things have evolved a lot: 10 years ago, when I took my grandson to have the arch stitched up, the nurse put a numbing compress on him before the intern came to do the stitches. Medical culture has also evolved: for example, parents were forbidden to come and see babies when they were hospitalized, and now we see more and more rooms where parents can stay with them. It is not yet 100%, it depends on the pathology, but we understood that the newborn badly needed the presence of the attachment figure, whether it is the mother or the father.

How have the parents evolved?

B.C. : Fifty years ago, women had children earlier. It was not uncommon for a woman to be already a mother at 50 or 18. And the difference with now is that she was absolutely not alone. The young mother was surrounded physically and emotionally by her family, who helped her, acted as a relay.

Is this something that got lost now? Haven’t we lost our “natural environment”, which would rather be close to the extended family?

B.C. : Yes. We observe, notably thanks to the work of Claude de Tychey, that there is more and more “pre-maternal” depression, more than after birth. Why ? One of the hypotheses is that the mother who is having a baby now is rather 30 years old, she lives far from her family and finds herself completely socially isolated. When her baby is born, she does not know the gestures of breastfeeding – she has often never seen a baby at the breast before her first baby – the grandmother is not there because she lives far away and has her own activities , and the father leaves her alone to return to work. It is a very great violence for the young mother. Our society, as it is organized, is not a protective factor for the young mother… and therefore for the baby. The mother is more stressed from the start of the pregnancy. We are already seeing the consequences in the United States and Japan where babies are 40% to be stressed. Hence the need, according to the work of the 1000 Days Commission, to leave the possibility for the father to stay near the mother longer. (Editor’s note: This is what was decided by President Macron by extending paternity leave to 28 days, even if the 1000 days commission recommended 9 weeks.

How to help parents?

B.C. : We started the 1000 days commission to meet the future parental couple. For us, we cannot be interested in parents when the pregnancy is already on the way because it is almost already too late. We must take care of the future parental couple, surround them and give them help even before the baby plan. A mother who is socially isolated will be unhappy. She will not have fun being with her baby. He will grow up in an impoverished sensory niche. This in turn leads to an insecure attachment which will greatly handicap the child afterwards, when he enters nursery or school. The urgency is therefore to help pregnant women, to surround them, because it is the babies who will benefit from it. At the commission, we would like fathers to be more present in families, so that there is a better sharing of parental responsibilities. This will not replace the extended family, but would bring the mother out of her isolation. The greatest aggression is the isolation of mothers.

You insist that children not look at any screens until age 3, but what about parents? Should they also drop out?

B.C. : Indeed, we now see very clearly that a baby who has been exposed to a lot of screens will have language delays, developmental delays, but it is also because often, this baby will not have been looked at himself. . We had proven, back in the 80s, that a baby who was watched by his father or mother while being bottle-fed suckled more and better. What we observe is that if a father or a mother spends his time looking at his cell phone instead of observing the child, the child is no longer sufficiently stimulated. This will cause adjustment problems to others: when to speak, at what pitch. This will have consequences on his future life, at school, with others.

Regarding ordinary educational violence, the law on spanking was passed – with difficulty – last year, but is it enough?

B.C. : No, the most glaring proof is that the law on domestic violence has been around longer, and that violence is still present in couples, it is increasing even as sexism increases. However, studies have shown that a child who observes violence between his parents will see his brain development completely altered. It is the same with violence that is exerted on the child, whether it is physical or verbal violence (humiliation, etc.). We now know that these attitudes have consequences on the brain. Of course, it was necessary to prohibit these practices, but now, we must surround the parents and educate them to help them to do otherwise. It’s not easy when you’ve been brought up in violence yourself, but the good news is that once you’ve stopped the violence, and re-established a secure attachment with your child. , his brain – which produces many new synapses every second – is able to completely reformat, within 24 to 48 hours. It is very reassuring, because everything is recoverable. To put it more simply, children are easy to hurt, but also easy to repair.

If we look at fifty years from now, can we imagine what the parents will be like?

B.C. : In fifty years, one can imagine that parents will organize themselves differently. Mutual aid should be restored within our societies. For this, we must take an example from northern countries, such as Finland where parents organize themselves. They form friendly groups of pregnant women and babies and help each other. We can imagine that in France, these groups will replace the extended family. Mothers could bring pediatricians, midwives, psychologists into their groups to learn things. But above all, babies would be more stimulated and parents would feel more supported and supported by an emotional community around them. That’s what I want anyway!

* Work by Marie-Claire Busnel, researcher and specialist in intrauterine life, at the CNRS.