What is the difference between a feminine approach to pleasure and a masculine one? Is it possible to have sexual relations without penetration? To what extent does the structure of our bodies influence our imagination? Sexologist Alain Eril and psychoanalyst Sophie Kadalen are trying to find out.
Sexologist Alain Héril believes that women are beginning to express their eroticism little by little … but they do it according to male rules. Psychoanalyst Sophie Cadalen formulates the answer differently: eroticism is a place where the boundaries between the sexes disappear … And in a dispute, as you know, truth is born.
Psychologies: Is there female erotica different from male?
Sophie Cadalen: I would not single out specific female erotica, the features of which would be characteristic of any woman. But at the same time, I know for sure: there are moments that can only be experienced as a woman. And that’s not the same as being a man. It is this difference that interests us in the first place. We take it into account, despite many prejudices, in order to understand: what are a man and a woman? what do we expect from each other sexually? what is our desire and way of having fun? But before answering these questions, we must take into account three factors: the era in which we live, the time we were raised, and the history of relationships between men and women up to the present day.
Alain Eril: Let’s try to define erotica. Shall we call any source of sexual arousal erotic? Or what shocks us, causing inner heat? Both fantasies and pleasure are connected with this word… For me, erotica is an idea of desire, which is presented through images. So, before talking about female erotica, one should ask if there are specific female images. And here I agree with Sophie: there is no female erotica outside the history of women and their place in society. Of course, there is something permanent. But today we do not know exactly which features we have are masculine and which are feminine, what is our difference and similarity, what are our desires — again, masculine and feminine. All this is very interesting because it forces us to ask ourselves questions.
However, if we look, for example, at pornographic sites, it seems to us that there is a huge difference between male and female fantasies …
S.K.: Therefore, it is important to remember the era from which we came. I think that since the concept of erotica arose, the position of a woman has always been defensive. We still hide behind — most often unconsciously — such ideas about femininity that deny us access to certain images. Let’s take pornography as an example. If we ignore a lot of prejudices and defensive reactions, it will quickly become clear that many men do not love her, although they claim the opposite, and women, on the contrary, love her, but carefully hide it. In our era, women are experiencing a terrible mismatch between their true sexuality and its expression. There is still a big gap between the freedom they claim and what they really feel and constantly forbid themselves.
Does this mean that women are still victims of the point of view held by men and society as a whole? Will they really hide their fantasies, desires and never turn them into reality?
S.K.: I refuse the term «victim» because I believe that women themselves are involved in this. When I started studying erotic literature, I discovered an interesting thing: we believe that this is male literature, and at the same time we expect — from ourselves or from the author — a female look. Well, for example, cruelty is a masculine quality. And so I noticed that women who write such books also want to experience the cruelty inherent in the male sexual organ. In this, women are no different from men.
A. E.: What we call pornography is this: one subject directs his desire to another subject, reducing him to the rank of an object. In this case, the man is most often the subject, and the woman is the object. That’s why we associate pornography with masculine qualities. But if we take the facts in the context of time, we will notice that female sexuality did not appear until 1969, when birth control pills appeared, and with them a new understanding of bodily relationships, sexuality and pleasure. This was very recently. Of course, there have always been such prominent female figures as Louise Labe.1, Colette2 or Lou Andreas-Salome3who stood up for their sexuality, but for most women, everything was just beginning. It’s hard for us to define female erotica because we still don’t really know what it is. We are now trying to define it, but at first we are walking along the road already paved by the rules of male eroticism: copying them, remaking them, starting from them. The exception is, perhaps, only lesbian relationships.
S.K.: I can’t agree with you about men’s rules. Of course, this is the history of the relationship between subject and object. This is what sexuality is all about, sexual fantasies: we are all subject and object in turn. But this does not mean that everything is built according to male rules.
Needless to say, we are different: the female body is designed to receive, the male — to penetrate. Does this play a role in the structure of erotica?
S.K.: You can change everything. Remember the image of a toothy vagina: a man is defenseless, his penis is in the power of a woman, she can bite him off. An erect member seems attacking, but it is also the main vulnerability of a man. And by no means all women dream of being pierced: in erotica everything is mixed up.
A. E.: The meaning of eroticism is to replace in our imagination and creativity the sexual act as such with a moment of sexuality. This area, which from time immemorial was masculine, is now mastered by women: sometimes they act like men, sometimes against men. We must give free rein to our desire for difference in order to accept the shock that something that is neither completely masculine nor completely feminine can bring us. This is the beginning of true freedom.
The meaning of erotica is to replace in our imagination and creativity the sexual act as such with a moment of sexuality.
S.K.: I agree with you about imagination and creativity. Erotica is not only a game leading to penetration. Penetration is not an end in itself. Erotica is everything that we play up to the climax, with or without penetration.
A. E.: When I studied sexology, we were told about the cycles of sexuality: desire, foreplay, penetration, orgasm… and a cigarette (laughs). The difference between a man and a woman is especially pronounced after an orgasm: a woman is immediately capable of the next one. This is where the eroticism is hidden: in this performance there is something of an order to continue. This is a challenge for us men: to enter a sexual space where penetration and ejaculation do not mean completion at all. By the way, I often hear this question at my reception: can sexual relations without penetration be called really sexual relations?
S.K.: Many women also ask this question. I agree with you on the definition of erotica: it arises from within, comes from the imagination, while pornography acts mechanically, leaving no room for the unconscious.
A. E.: Pornography is what leads us to meat, to the friction of mucous membranes against each other. We do not live in a hyper-erotic, but in a hyper-pornographic society. People are looking for a way that would allow sexuality to operate mechanically. This contributes not to erotica, but to excitement. And this is not true, because then we convince ourselves that we are happy in the sexual area. But this is no longer hedonism, but a fever, sometimes painful, often traumatic.
S.K.: The excitement that clashes with achievement. We have to “get to…” We have before our eyes, on the one hand, a mass of images, concepts, prescriptions, and on the other, extreme conservatism. It seems to me that erotica slips between these two extremes.
A. E.: Erotica will always find a way to express itself, because its basis is our libido. When artists during the Inquisition were forbidden to paint naked bodies, they depicted Christ crucified in an extremely erotic way.
S.K.: But censorship is omnipresent because we carry it within us. Erotica is always found where it is either forbidden or considered indecent. It seems that everything is allowed today? Our eroticism will find its way into every crevice and emerge at the moment when we least expect it. In the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong person… Eroticism is born from violations of our unconscious inhibitions.
A. E.: We always touch on an area closely related to erotica when we talk about details. For example, I mention a sail on the horizon, and everyone understands that we are talking about a ship. This ability helps our view, starting with a detail, to complete something whole. Perhaps this is the fundamental difference between erotica and pornography: the first only hints, the second offers bluntly, in a harsh manner. There is no curiosity in pornography.
1 Louise Labé, 1522–1566, French poetess, led an open lifestyle, hosted writers, musicians and artists in her house.
2 Colette (Sidonie-Gabrielle Colette), 1873–1954, was a French writer, also known for her freedom of morals and many love affairs with women and men. Knight of the Order of the Legion of Honor.
3 Lou Andreas-Salome, Louise Gustavovna Salome (Lou Andreas-Salomé), 1861‒1937, daughter of General of the Russian Service Gustav von Salome, writer and philosopher, friend and inspirer of Friedrich Nietzsche, Sigmund Freud and Rainer-Maria Rilke.