Deaths due to COVID-19 – Poles are dying of a disease that does not require dying. Conversation with the doctor

– Poles are more afraid of vaccines than covid. And if nothing changes, we will continue to die of a disease that does not need dying anymore – we talk with Dr. Maciej Zatoński, a Polish doctor working in Great Britain, about the cost of not vaccinating.

1. Polls show that about half of Poles do not intend to vaccinate against COVID-19
2. Dr Maciej Zatoński works in Great Britain. He says there is much more confidence in science, medicine, and doctors
3. – Polish patients seem lost. Sometimes they ask absurd questions, as if taken from textbooks on the worst conspiracy theories from the deepest pits of the Internet – says the expert
4. You can find more such stories on the TvoiLokony home page

Zuzanna Opolska, MedTvoiLokony: Doctor, as you know, vaccination prophylaxis is our weakness. According to a nationwide survey of Poles, Kantarⁱ – only a quarter of us have heard about the vaccination schedule for adults. Anyway, even if we know, we do not vaccinate – according to the latest opinion polls, 53 percent. of unvaccinated Poles declare that they want to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Much, little?

Dr. Maciej Zatoński: Embarrassingly little. It’s hard for me to understand why almost half of Poles reject or have doubts about one of the most effective, reliable and safe interventions in medicine. Especially since Poland is a country where the consumption of drugs and dietary supplements is among the highest in Europe. Not to mention other ways in which we damage our health, such as bad eating habits, tobacco and alcohol.

Do the British approach vaccination differently?

Smarter – Trust in science, scientists, doctors and the UK health system is relatively high, best evidenced by official figures. Among the elderly and those from the first risk groups, even more than 95% are at stake. population. In addition, the vast majority want to get vaccinated and show up at the vaccination points on time. So, in my British experience, the contrast to what we see on the Vistula River is extremely dramatic.

In 2020, 75 thousand jobs were recorded in Poland. Additional deaths compared to the average of the previous three years, and it is highly likely that almost all were directly or indirectly caused by COVID-19. At the moment, the next wave of the pandemic is taking its toll and I really don’t understand why Poles are dying of a disease that you don’t have to die of today. This is shown by the numbers – in the last quarter, the highest peak of the pandemic, the number of deaths from COVID-19 in the UK fell from 1200/1300 per day to zero deaths recorded on May 10. Let me remind you that we are talking about a country of 70 million …

I know that you volunteer to vaccinate your patients at the local vaccination point. Do you see a difference in the attitude of the British and Poles living in the UK?

Unfortunately, yes, British patients come on scheduled dates, are well informed, and often give vaccinations with an exposed hand or arm. Additionally, they are well versed in their medical history, and if they have doubts about their past or health, they ask the right questions.

On the other hand, Polish patients, and I deal only with those who decided to vaccinate, seem to be lost. Sometimes they ask absurd questions, as if taken from textbooks on the worst conspiracy theories from the deepest pits of the Internet. In most cases, they know little about their health history and are unfamiliar with vaccination prophylaxis. I only remember one person who was vaccinated against the flu, as requested by their employer.

The shocking thing is that no matter what their age they are afraid of vaccinations. This is a big contrast to Britons who are afraid of covid! Perhaps this is the result of the first waves of pandemics that had a dramatic course in the UK and many people lost their loved ones.

The vast majority of Poles declare their willingness to vaccinate with the Pfizer vaccine (34,5%), the least with the vaccine of the British-Swedish AstraZeneca concern (4,9%). Are COVID-19 vaccines in the UK also divided into worse and better?

No, but there is no reason to think that either. There is no evidence that any vaccine is better or worse. It seems to me that the main problem is the media narrative, where often ineffective attempts are made to compare the results of clinical trials that were made with different preparations, on different populations, in different countries with different strains circulating at different times.

You talk about data from studies assessing the effectiveness of Pfizer and Moderna at over 90%, and AstraZeneca from 76%–82 percent depending on the dose interval?

Yes, such comparisons are completely pointless and I don’t understand what they’re meant for. It is clear from the population data that all available vaccines are similarly effective in reducing hospital admissions and deaths from COVID-19. It is certainly a mistake to reject the proposed vaccine, especially in a raging pandemic. In addition, many older British people, especially patriotic people who have been offered the Pfizer vaccine, say: too bad it’s not our local from Oxford.

What Poles fear are thrombotic incidents …

Indeed, in recent times a lot of media coverage has been dedicated to very rare thromboembolic complications, but I would like to point out that they apply to all vaccines, not just vector vaccines. Depending on the observations, we are talking about an order of magnitude comparable to the risk of being hit by lightning, i.e. about one in a million.

In addition, let’s not forget that in the case of mRNA vaccines there is a slightly greater risk of an anaphylactic reaction, which is also a potentially life-threatening condition. Therefore, if a patient has a history of anaphylactic reactions following administration of drugs or vaccinations, he should be offered a vectored vaccine. Conversely, if you have had a history of thrombosis caused by heparin or a rare vascular embolism in the brain, you should be offered an mRNA vaccine.

Thus, vaccines should be selected based on patients’ health history and potential risks, but in any case it is safer intervention than leaving people to contract COVID-19.

Denmark stopped vaccination with AstraZeneką in April, and on May 3 the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was withdrawn from use. According to the researchers, a similar decision by the Dutch government to temporarily suspend immunization with AstraZeneca for two weeks, cost the lives of 13 patients. The scenario will repeat itself?

Very likely. I would like to emphasize once again that during a pandemic it does not absolutely matter what preparation we vaccinate ourselves with. What matters is how many people and how quickly they get vaccinated. Governments of different countries can make different decisions for different reasons, and it is difficult for me to explain. We can, however, reflect on the potential direct and indirect effects of stopping vaccination.

Let’s start with the first – if in a raging pandemic the availability of vaccines decreases, the process of vaccinating the population slows down, which translates into the number of people who will die. Another direct consequence is depriving ourselves of an alternative, i.e. a patient with a history of anaphylactic reactions can no longer be offered a vector vaccine. As for indirect effects, the echo of similar decisions is the unjustified fear of patients about the safest medical intervention we know today. And the fewer people who decide to vaccinate, the more difficult it is to obtain population immunity. It also means more time for new mutations and variants of the virus. In addition, as studies show, people discouraged from using one vaccine give up other vaccinations, and this leads to an increase in morbidity and deaths from other infectious diseases.

More and more attention is being paid to new variants of the coronavirus, do currently available vaccines protect us against them?

There are thousands of these variants and mutations – we identify some of them, others we are unable to, and in fact new ones are created every day. Most of them have absolutely no meaning, but for some reason some get more or less media fame. At the moment, we know that COVID-19 vaccines are not ideal, but they protect us against both those variants that were circulating some time ago and those that are currently appearing. There is also a good chance that we will be more or less resistant to future variants after vaccination.

What role did British doctors play in the pandemic, many have gained the status of “celebrities” in our country. In a country with a shortage of infectious disease doctors, everyone has become an expert on COVID-19. We heard that lockdown kills, masks are unnecessary, the Swedish road is the best …

Maybe I’ll start from the end – Poland and Sweden cannot be compared with each other. Different demographics, different population density, different access to healthcare, different mentality of citizens. In Great Britain, no one is questioning the wearing of masks, much less the legitimacy of the lockdown. If everyone stayed home for two weeks and had no contact with others, we would have overcome the pandemic within two weeks. When it comes to the attitude of doctors, no one is trying to make a star of themselves. The overwhelming majority of health care workers go to local vaccination centers after their work voluntary work. They are not forced to do so, they are not asked to do so, and no one is encouraging them. It just happens.

And how is compliance with the restrictions? In Poland, the underground is very active – gyms, beauty salons, clubs …

Since the beginning of the lockdown, the British government has helped entrepreneurs on a much larger scale than in Poland. Nobody is faced with a dramatic choice: illegal work or starvation, illegal work or bankruptcy. Money is paid to people who are forced to stay at home – currently it is 80 percent. their earnings. Government returns for employers will take just a few days to show up in employers’ accounts.

This may interest you:

1. The healers are not healthy. The doctor tells them what is wrong with them most often
2. How effective is COVID-19 vaccines? [COMPARISON]
3. Do you boast about vaccination on the Internet? You better not do that

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