Contents
They have three children: Dasha has a child from her first marriage and two from life with Pasha. Dasha is businesslike and energetic (sometimes even too much), it is she who is spinning in business and has been supporting her family for several years now. Pasha has had problems with work all these years: he is good, but sometimes slows down, and only a couple of months ago Pasha found a good job. Over the past years, Pasha and Dasha have accumulated many mutual claims. They were at my consultation a year ago. Here is an interesting and difficult conversation I had with them during this consultation.
It is clear that the names of the characters have been changed.
About work
N.I. Kozlov: — Pasha, Dasha used to have complaints about you that you do not have a normal job. Now your job is quite decent, you are the head of the department, your boss treats you with respect. Accordingly, this problem should disappear. Or do you have some new problems?
Pasha: — Nikolai Ivanovich, I’m not very confident in my work. I see that decisions in this job are often made politically, and with the kindest attitude of my boss towards me, I don’t know what will happen tomorrow. And while there is no official contract with me, I conclude it every month. In this regard, I assess the situation as not very stable.
Dasha: — I would like to pay special attention to this moment, because this is a very good mirror example of what I feel in family relationships: a contract soldier who is not on a permanent staff. I understand that how I show myself, it will be so, and how Pasha will show himself in a new place, the way it can be: he can be enrolled in the state, or he can work happily ever after under a contract.
N.I. Kozlov: So, what things would we like to discuss now? About feelings, about something else?
Pasha: — Probably about feelings, about a single picture of our family. I don’t see her, and we both probably don’t see her. It’s important for me.
N.I. Kozlov: — You do not see the family. And what, for example, do you see without a family? Any interesting projects or other families? I’m just wondering because I don’t know your life.
Pasha: — I see a lot of interesting projects outside the family, and the question of how efficient they are is important to me. That is, a family of interesting projects around, the most efficient.
N.I. Kozlov: — I think that this does not strongly contradict one another. I don’t know what projects you have in your head, so I’m going to ask stupid questions. What options are you considering, for example: 1) Living with a family, 2) Living outside the family, 3) Living with other women or men.
Pasha: — I am considering one project: to continue to build a family in the form in which it is.
N.I. Kozlov: — That is, if everything gets better in the family, will it suit you?
Pasha: — If it gets better, then yes.
N.I. Kozlov: — Great, I heard. What about you, Dasha?
Dasha: — I’m worried about the situation with Pavel’s work. Over the course of five years of marriage, he worked permanently for about a year in general. Now he has got a good job, but will he want to stay there?
Pasha: Yes, Dasha. If you want, I give you guarantees.
Dasha: — Okay, okay.
About the rest
N.I. Kozlov: What other questions do you have?
Pasha: — I don’t know how to make Dasha sensibly assess her strength and rest until she collapses.
N.I. Kozlov: — Are you talking about internal tension or that Dasha goes to bed no earlier than 4 in the morning?
Pasha: — About internal tension. I can control the fact that Dasha goes to bed no earlier than 4 in the morning, but internal tension is not.
N.I. Kozlov: — Will it be normal if, for example, we introduce the following ritual: every evening you meet, and the meeting takes place in the following format: you come up and say: «Dasha, I need you,» and Dasha puts her hands on your chest (we now we can rehearse), and says: “Pasha, I’m sure of you, my heart is calm.” If you do this every evening, then, in the end, you will relax.
Pasha: — As a working version, if it helps.
N.I. Kozlov: — It will help.
Dasha: — Very precise words, I like both phrases very much. How about you? Wouldn’t it be hard for you to say that you need me?
Pasha: Not difficult. I’m already saying: Dasha, I need you.
N.I. Kozlov: — And the response phrase?
Dasha: — I’m sure of you, Pash.
N.I. Kozlov: — Cool, but you need to rehearse every evening. There may be different options.
Pasha: Good!
N.I. Kozlov: Great! Also: tell me, do you walk in the evening?
Pasha: — Yes, it happens, occasionally.
N.I. Kozlov: — Maybe you should walk more often? This will bring you closer, help Dasha to relax and feel that you are together.
Pasha: Well, maybe.
N.I. Kozlov: Great. Therefore, I suggest, Pavel: if Dasha tells you: “Pash, I have plans for you today, we are going for a walk,” then you tell her according to: “Yes, Dasha, I am happy, we are going for a walk.” That is, she is responsible for walking you. Of course, you can always discuss, suddenly you have serious business, but if you are not busy with anything important, then you go for a walk with Dasha.
Pasha: — Yes, we agreed: if I have no plans for this evening, then I’m going for a walk with Dasha.
N.I. Kozlov: Great!
About sex
Pasha: — I also have a specific request, which I voiced to Dasha a hundred times, but never received an answer: I really miss the intimate component of our relationship, and I don’t know how to create it. We tried to go together to some trainings, for example, to Nezovibatko.
N.I. Kozlov: — Are we talking about sex or soulfulness?
Pasha: — About sex.
N.I. Kozlov: Great. Dasha, what will be the answer to this question?
Dasha: — The last days are really very bad, I don’t want to, I don’t have the strength.
N.I. Kozlov: — That’s not good. What will you do?
Dasha: Rest. I have now been given some guarantees, and tomorrow I will call two very annoying customers and refuse to cooperate. After that, I can somehow relax.
Pasha: — Yes, maybe we can have sex more often, but this will not be a solution on this issue.
N.I. Kozlov: — Then what are we talking about: the frequency of sex or the atmosphere around?
Pasha: Both. I clearly lack the frequency, it’s true, and, at the same time, I lack something else to make it happy.
N.I. Kozlov: — Let me come up with a funny proposal for you now, and you will laugh at it and offer something better.
For example: Pavel, I will offer you to play the role of an offended man who has been offended by a lack of attention and warmth for many years, you don’t raise the issue of sex at all. This is your role. Dasha’s role is different: she should treat your grievances with understanding, like «everything happens with men.» Moreover, she is absolutely not to blame for anything, she kept her family on her for many years, she was exhausted, she had her own grievances against you. But now she may want to take care of you, the family, the relationship. And Dasha takes responsibility — both for walks and for sex, for frequency and for sincerity. And if Dasha shows interest and creates an atmosphere, you have sex. And if not, you sink into resentment, you don’t offer sex yourself, you don’t do anything at home, that’s how offended you are. But if Dasha shows initiative, then every time you respond with warmth and gratitude, already without offense, the main thing is that Dasha shows initiative. All she needs is to show minimal interest: “let me kiss you on the cheek, scratch behind your ear.”
And as a result, in a month or two you sum up: either you have a harmonious sex life, or not harmonious. If Dasha needs a family, she will do it.
Pasha: — Well, what do I do in a situation where I really want to?
N.I. Kozlov: You do nothing, you accumulate resentment. And then you say to her: “Dasha, trash. This is not life, this is a mockery of the peasant. Dasha, I have such a wife — not a wife at all! But the fact is that Dasha has a good head, even an excellent one, and if she knows that everything is in order with your work, then she can free herself a little from earning money. She will begin to rest and establish a sexual life. Dasha is an adult girl, she will solve this issue. You can send me a report once a month.
Pasha: — Well, I’m ready to conduct such an experiment.
About gratitude
Dasha: — I’m usually lieutenant Rzhevsky, who came and ruined everything. Pash, did you ever really feel good with me? There were just periods when I was very concerned about this issue and tried hard on this topic.
N.I. Kozlov: — Dash, I am grateful to you for this question. Pavel, I am correcting my proposal: two reports and two responsibilities. Dasha’s responsibility is to be absolutely honest in sexual terms, and take care of you, as a loving and caring woman should. And your task is different, called «physiognomy». This is a physiognomy that expresses gratitude to a woman. This, in particular, manifests itself in joy, so that you do not hide that you were fine. So as not to be too lazy to express it and say a sincere “thank you”. If you want, you express it — swear at Dasha: “Why didn’t you bring me joy before?” Dasha will be glad that you quarreled with her, because at last you appreciated that you felt good with her. But if Dasha will try, and you will consider what is there on the ceiling and in the corners, then if I were Dasha, I would really think about whether such efforts are needed. If Daria behaves properly, really cares about both the frequency and the atmosphere, then you are not playing the already offended innocence. It will be fair. So, do both parties take responsibility each for their part?
Pasha: — I take responsibility for my side. I always respond to Dasha. Another moment, how I feel it.
N.I. Kozlov: — And I will explain to you what you will feel. If you are having sex, and then after sex, look into your soul, stomach, lungs, and so on, look for your feelings there, then you will not find anything there. It’s about «feel». And if you understand that you have a duty to this woman to give her joy, then you will succeed. When you want to give joy to a child, you don’t look into your soul, but look at the physiognomy of the child and think about what he needs to say and do, where to tickle, what kind of candy to give so that the child’s face lights up with a smile. If necessary, go through training, but so that you know how to do it. Gratitude is not in what you feel, but gratitude in the fact that you said it and did it, and the woman’s face lit up. Can you handle it?
Pasha: — Yes.
About living together
Dasha: — Since we started digging difficult questions, here’s another one. We have a marriage of convenience, to some extent a contractual agreement, at least on the part of Paul. When Pavel suggested that I marry, I did not immediately agree, but offered certain conditions, the main of which was the following: Pavel restrains his loving nature at least for the duration of my pregnancy, does not walk on the side. We almost immediately had a second child and now he has grown up. Accordingly, here is an interesting question: do we still have a contractual agreement or will we have a family?
N.I. Kozlov: — I have a proposal: to transfer a marriage of convenience into a marriage for life, under one single condition: you take care of it together. I think that you have a good promising couple. I have an offer for you, like hands and hearts, from a third person. I suggest you offer each other a hand and a heart. How will you answer? Yes or no?
Pasha and Dasha nodded to each other and shook hands.
N.I. Kozlov: — Sometimes it is important for a woman to hear “I offer you my hand and heart”, and sometimes it is important for a man to decide. Certainty, vision of perspectives is an important thing for both. To invest in a project, it is important to know that this is a project for a long time, that it has prospects.
Dasha: — I don’t know whether I should be happy or not, but this decision raises new questions for us. The fact is that we keep our money apart, everything is different for us, everyone has their own. This is convenient: we can get a divorce any day and we will not have big property problems. What now? Scary…
Pasha: — Yes, this is also an unclear question for me: for the time being, it is more efficient to take into account finances separately.
N.I. Kozlov: — Yes, you need to be more careful here, do not rush to combine property. My suggestion is that you propose to each other for a trial marriage, but with serious intentions, and, suppose for a year, see how much each party really wants to create a stable future. If in a year both are satisfied, then you solve property issues not with the task of “insurance”, but with the task of uniting more efficiently so as not to waste extra time and money.
Pasha: — Until the issue of sex is resolved, I am not ready to give any guarantees.
N.I. Kozlov: Right. And do not agree to anything until this issue is resolved. And you, Dasha, do not agree until Pasha resolves the issue with his detached physiognomy, learns to make her enthusiastic, satisfied and grateful.
About energy
Dasha: — With Pasha, she is not completely aloof, rather condescending.
Pasha: — I don’t know, for my part I did everything in my power, I tried.
N.I. Kozlov: — Pavel, a hint — you need to ask every time: “Dash, it’s true, you were wonderful, but please tell me, was my muzzle right now or not?” Don’t guess, ask Dasha.
Dasha: — This is an interesting moment. I have a perception of Pasha as some kind of miracle. I can swear at him, I can make claims to him, consider that he does not live up to expectations, and did not justify something there, but at the same time, at the snap of my fingers, I can reproduce the attitude that he is “a miracle work, wonderful and cool” . I can easily admire him. But I have not seen such a mutual relationship, and I do not really understand whether it is possible. Should I expect it?
N.I. Kozlov: — It’s difficult for Pavel, but it’s not about you, you have nothing to do with it. This is Pavel’s problem: he has the usual energy and the usual muzzle. Absolutely any other woman can be in your place, but his tail will not grow from this, another tempo will not appear, and his facial expression will not change. He is like that, this is his bodily physics, his physical limitations. It’s not up to you, it’s up to him. If he trains hard, works at the Distance, his facial expression will begin to change to a more joyful one, but this is not fast, not immediately. For example, now he has already learned to speak better, not as loudly and abruptly as before, he now speaks more attentively and gently, I no longer twitch when I hear his voice. But it comes gradually, the physicality changes. Everything is easy with your facial expression, but Pavel is different. He is such a miracle child, who now has his own characteristics.
Dasha: — We, among other things, have a son who is very similar to him in this sense, and it is easier for me to accept him as he is, although there are difficulties. And how to get? Any things that I understand that I can not get very much?
N.I. Kozlov: Not everything is promised to us. Sooner or later, Pavel will grow old and wither in all respects, then he will die. Will you ask then how to get? Women can live without men, and men live without women and do business.
Dasha: — It all somehow sounds very gloomy, I’m not really asking about that. Some kind of positive thing. How to raise self-esteem?
N.I. Kozlov: — What kind of self-esteem? What is self-esteem here?
Dasha: — There is such a moment with my self-esteem. You try, you try, but still…
N.I. Kozlov: — Let’s suppose he got very ill. You try and try, but he still does not rise, his temperature remains. What will happen to your self-esteem? He doesn’t smile at you because he has a temperature of 39,5. Doesn’t dance with you, but you try. And now self-esteem is collapsing: “Damn, why isn’t he dancing with me, but lying in bed and his eyes are generally going in circles because of the high temperature ?!” Self-esteem has nothing to do with it.
About joint affairs
Dasha: — Okay, there is one more question. We have a shortage of joint projects, not financially, but in terms of life: we need something in common besides children. I have a million ideas, as usual, but this has nothing to do with either the family or Pavel.
N.I. Kozlov: — I understand correctly that you would like to have more topics for discussion, topics for conversation that would unite you.
Dasha: — Rather, not for conversations, but for activity.
N.I. Kozlov: You need joint discussions, but joint activities, I’m afraid, are not realistic. Pavel is now busy with his own affairs, he now needs to develop training programs, and I’m not sure that you will go into the development of these programs. Will you be doing this?
Dasha: — I would go easily, but I don’t see the point.
N.I. Kozlov: — It is true, also to him — why? First of all, take care of joint discussions, look for topics that unite you. Let Pavel look for what topics he wants to discuss, so that this concerns Dasha’s interests: he will tell, think, at least listen. And Dasha is interested in what Pasha has there. And this is your mutual family duty — the creation of common themes that unite you. Like sex, children, health. Can you handle it?
About joint vacation
Dasha: — Well, we’ll manage. By the way, I have another good idea born: we need to do a joint vacation! You can try, what do you think? I’ve become preoccupied with the topic of holidays and realized that I completely dropped out of this topic.
N.I. Kozlov: — Pasha, answer me: can you organize a joint vacation?
Pasha: — Perhaps it will turn out in the fall. I’ll find out when they can give me a vacation.
N.I. Kozlov: — If there is a vacation, you will go together. And if there is no vacation yet, instead of a vacation, you have a great topic for discussion. Start dreaming where and how you would like to go, could go, where you will go later. Walk and dream. Good deal. Can you do it?
Pasha: I’m not sure. I have made suggestions many times, but it did not end well.
N.I. Kozlov: — Wait, now we are talking about something else: about “dreaming”. Can you organize this? Take advantage of the opportunity. Your woman says: «I really decided to think about it.» She hadn’t said that before, but now she did. So, use the opportunity: it does not guarantee anything to you, but the opportunity must be used. Need to try.
Pasha: — Well, of course we can mark, it’s probably good, but I’m talking about real holidays. Dasha did not like the last holidays that I organized, and this is putting it mildly. I got wild feedback on them that “I feel bad there, I suck and never again.”
N.I. Kozlov: Thank you for saying that. We can solve this issue in the following way: you dream and are responsible for dreams, but we appoint Dasha responsible for a real real vacation. And then who will give feedback to whom? Dasha got what she organized, and you honestly played along. Is this normal?
Pasha: It’s okay.
N.I. Kozlov: — Let’s repeat this again, so that everything fits well in my head. Yes, you had a rather negative experience organizing all these vacations. It was before, and now a woman is sitting in front of you, who says: “Listen, what happened, it happened, but I want to try again. I am responsible for these matters. All claims will be only to me, not to you. Your only request, perhaps your only responsibility, is that you participate with me in discussing how we should dream.” You are responsible for the fact that you are without sour faces and with sufficient enthusiasm to participate in daydreaming. And there can be no claims against you for the implementation. Fine?
Pasha: — Absolutely.
N.I. Kozlov: — Dash, did I formulate correctly?
Dasha: — Basically, yes. At the same time, I think that we may want completely opposite things, but a compromise is probably possible. So that I would lie on the beach, drink juice through that.e.chka, and you would hang out somewhere.
Pasha: — But then I don’t understand why we should travel together!
N.I. Kozlov: — Sometimes it’s spiritual. Sometimes people want to see each other once a month, sometimes once a week, sometimes once a day. And suddenly, once — such a landscape: you have Dasha to have breakfast together.
Dasha: — You can probably still come up with some kind of joint pastime. And even some parties that will be of interest to both of us.
About marriage
N.I. Kozlov: Are you proposing to each other? Marriage proposal, with what conditions? Provided that everything works out, and if everything works out, then I propose temporary options to rethink, estimate, transfer to the long-term perspective.
Dasha: — I feel Pavel well and now I feel his inner resistance. It’s even starting to annoy me!
Pasha: Good. I am ready for all these experiments on us, and if the issues of sex and mutual common affairs are resolved on my part, then I am ready to build relationships on an ongoing basis.
N.I. Kozlov: — Hurrah! Answer?
Dasha: — I’m still ready. I don’t see or look for alternatives.
N.I. Kozlov: — Come on, kiss your hand. Awesome!