Vincent Cassel: «Monica and I had an open marriage»

The plastique of an aristocrat, delicacy, a polite smile. A quiet intelligible voice and an open look of a harmonious nature. He is elegant and affable. There is no explosive passion of his characters in it, no insidious cynicism, no hidden rage. Nothing macho. Only gentleness, understanding, attention. He does not try to please the interlocutor. He prefers to be efficient — to answer my journalistic questions, to satisfy, as far as he can, my human curiosity for him. He is almost completely gray, dressed in all gray — a gray cashmere sweater, gray trousers — which so emphasizes the clarity of his blue eyes.

Yes, clarity is perhaps the key characteristic of Vincent Cassel. There are no topics that he would refuse to talk about. What worries him, what he has an opinion about, what seems to him truly important, will certainly be articulated. That is why you can ask him any question and not be afraid of either resentment or insincerity. So I decide to start with a question that someone else would have reacted harshly to: «I don’t talk about my personal life.» But Kassel… Kassel says.

Psychologies: You and Monica Bellucci were, without exaggeration, a «dream couple». And you were together for a long time — almost 20 years, right? Your parting was a shock to the public, a kind of collapse of the ideal. What happened, why did you break up? After all, that official «by mutual agreement» that we all heard does not really explain anything.

Vincent Kassel: You know, this is the wrong word — «broke up.» Sometimes marriages break up. But people don’t, they don’t separate. This is just our case. We’ll always be together. And not at all because we have two children and our youngest daughter is only six. You see, when we say “they broke up”, we mean that, once united, people made a mistake and now they realize it. But we didn’t get divorced because we made a mistake. On the contrary, we did the right thing then. But now it’s better to get divorced. That’s all. We have never absolutized the so-called marital fidelity. Not that we had romantic episodes, so to speak, on the side … But psychologically, we left the doors of our marriage open.

For both of us, it has always been a priority that, by and large, we are together, although we sometimes lived separately — Monica in Rome, I am in Paris … But we knew that we would always find ourselves where we needed each other. As long as we need, really need each other. And at some point it became clear: a lot connects us, we are devoted to each other, but there is no longer any need to be together and be considered a couple. And then it’s better not to be considered a couple anymore. That is, in fact, no events preceded our parting. But feelings, something indistinct …

You see, I — simply by virtue of nature — have a certain rage, a certain bitterness, an obsession. This is a part of my character that I try to restrain in everyday life, and if I splash it out, then only in roles. And Monica … She has many talents, but, in my opinion, the main one is her insight, she looks into the very depths of a person and knows how to create for him a feeling of complete comfort next to her. And as an actress, she has a rare gift — she sort of expands reality, she creates the reality of a dream, you see it in her roles. The same is true in real life. For the first 20 years, it enchants… And then you want to go back to the rough physical world, where there is rage, obsession. Away from the ideal, if you will.

Rage and bitterness often characterize your movie characters. Actually, the role in the film called «Hatred» paved the way for you in a big movie. And your real image — no matter what you say about yourself — contradicts the screen. How do you get along with this screen person — a desperate criminal, a brutal gangster, a fatal seducer, an immoral type who denies ideals?

VC.: I don’t get along. I have a lot in common with him. We all have a lot in common with him. In English, there is this beautifully universal definition — nice. Everyone tries to be nice — pleasant in every way, whatever they mean by it. But in reality, human beings are made up of contradictions. And everyone has a dark side. When you are happy, the world sees your bright side. In misfortune we turn dark. I do not know a single unconditionally positive person and I do not know a single complete villain. I only know the happy and the unhappy.

This guy from «Hate» — is he a villain? No, he is a man who was deprived of both the present and the future, and hope. Merin, gangster, murderer — for his daughter, who cried when she saw me in her father’s makeup, villain? No. I find unhappiness in the disgusting. And I play him. Have you seen «My King»? There is an episode where the hero threatens his ex-wife: like, you will arise when you get custody of a common child, I will tell the court that you were on tranquilizers. This is just it! When I read this episode in the script, I was horrified: damn, what a bastard! I would never say that… But I’m not him, I didn’t experience such a gap and the threat of such a loss. And how can I say that I would not have acted like him?

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Something in me protests against your theory of relativity and even the humanism of evil and, probably, against the pleasure with which you “perform” evil — in “Hatred”, in “Shaitan”, in “Dangerous Method” …

VC.: I’m an old punk. Truth. When my parents separated and my mother moved to New York, I spent a lot of time in this punk-rap city. The 80s, the birth of hip-hop and gangsta culture… My brother, by the way, became a hip-hop star. In my generation of Europeans, there was a big charge of protest — not against something specific, against the calm of the 70s. Because of this, I entered the circus school — to be not like my father, although I understood that I could not do anything else, but I, in the end, grew up behind the scenes. But to be pleasant to everyone, like a father, he categorically did not want to be an exquisite dandy. I studied in four elite boarding schools, escaped from all (the Catholic one completely made me an atheist forever), took a sip of New York and entered the circus school. Probably looking for sharp forms, grotesque.

My classmates and I soon began to perform on the streets and in clubs, and sometimes with the threat that we would be beaten — for the uncompromising nature of our buffoonery. And then he finally met his own — Mathieu Kassovitz, Gaspard Noe, Jan Kounen, guys from the cinema, young directors who wanted to spit on the «national film heritage of France», on all these sentiments — oh, the «new wave», oh, Godard with Truffaut … We were a generation, but we felt like a sect … These guys knew for sure that there is unromantic pain in the world, inelegant dramas, natural violence. Hence «Hatred», «Irreversibility», «Doberman». They were evil, just like me. There is also productive anger, I tell you. Youthful nihilism, perhaps. But even now I refuse to exclude evil from life. Evil is part of it. Violence and blood exist. But demonstrating them is not the same as justifying them. This means simply not moving away from painful topics. Pain is part of life.

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You say you didn’t want to be like your father. But they became an actor, like him. And a star like him. And even inherited his acting pseudonym …

VC.: Here is a story … At first I tried to change the appearance in the films, but the more disguise was, the more noticeable the resemblance became. And everyone in France knew his father, he was a super-superstar. And he really was an amazing person. A real dandy, indeed. With all these Wildian properties: “Keep calm, strike with surprise” and the title of “French Fred Astaire”. But it was so natural for him. And I was strikingly similar to him, but I was sick of all this! I was ready to explode! And he actively denied the resemblance to him, changed his appearance as best he could. But at some point it became clear to me that disguise is comical. And that you are who you are.

With a paternal slit in the eyes and a mother’s penchant for rebellion … And with their own characteristics. Only when parents die do we stop fighting them. I argued and defended. And he stopped only shortly before the death of his father. And it would be nice to stop earlier. If now I were asked what conclusion I drew from all this, I would answer: do not fight with those who will have to leave before you. Take care of them. At least out of selfishness — so as not to feel guilty later.

But now you have the experience of not only a son, but also a father. Do you have anything to say about your own parenting experience?

VC.: Parental experience… I wouldn’t call it an experience. Rather, it’s… It’s like finding a new love. A love that I could never have imagined before. I don’t know, maybe because I have girls … And between us there is a barrier to understanding the world from the position of our gender. I can’t look at life through a woman’s eyes, and they can’t look through a man’s. Perhaps that is why I would not say that my relationship with them is based on the duties of education. I just love. I never criticize. I always support. It is so important for a woman in our world to be self-confident!

My whole upbringing is that they can count on me under all circumstances. And that I try to be around as much as possible — if you send your child to the best boarding school, but he is not with you — what was the point of having children? In general, I think of myself for girls as the rear, and not the front line. Yes, and rather they educate me. When our second daughter was born, I realized: wow, I’m a normal person — I have a family, children, a house … Even a few. You have to match.

At some point, you had a house in Brazil, and even the family lived there with you. Why Brazil, why move?

VC.: I fell in love with Brazil a long time ago, 30 years ago. And he kept going, going there, until he decided to settle in Rio. During this time I have mastered Portuguese, without false modesty — I speak quite well. You see, Brazil is one of the last places on earth where life has a… poetic dimension. Where simply an element of poetry is included in the daily existence. This is no longer the case either in Europe or in the USA, even in Japan it has remained at the level of the “sakura ritual”. And in Brazil, people in the evening, when they drive home from work, choose a certain route — to see the sunset over the ocean. Both relationships and everyday contacts there are poetic in their own way.

And then, we have only the idea of ​​possession and achievement, among the Brazilians, and, perhaps, even among the Italians, the idea of ​​happiness as an indispensable part of life. Enjoyment of life as part of the lifestyle itself. Regardless of achievements and possessions. That’s why I’ve been doing capoeira for so many years. Capoeira for me is a cross between a martial art and the art itself, ballet… I moved when I realized that I had previously searched for poetry in my life unconsciously. It is still strange to me that it turned out that poetry is also a place. Not only passion and fortune. It turns out I finally found my place.