How does logotherapy see us today? Viktor Frankl’s student Elisabeth Lucas talks about the impact of economic circumstances on the mental state of people, about overcoming mental crises and a special spiritual level in psychotherapy.
How would you define the concept of mental crisis?
In logotherapy, a mental crisis is considered to be a dangerous condition that threatens a person’s life; this is a danger to his freedom, formation, self-determination, when a person ceases to be the master of his soul, no longer knows where to direct the “ship” of his life and is already driven by other, not good, forces, such as fear, for example. And they can knock him out of the way.
Is it possible to put an equal sign between a mental crisis and fear or depression?
No, it cannot be said that a crisis is a disease. There are also mentally healthy people who plunge into a crisis, there are also sick people, physically or mentally, who, despite this, do not experience a crisis. I sometimes give such a comparison: here we are driving along a freeway and our wheel bursts (it’s like a disease), that is, something broke in the car, but it’s still impossible to say whether we are in a crisis — if you are a good driver, you will be able to stop the car and the accident will not happen. And vice versa, you can drive a great car and get into an accident — for example, make a turn at high speed and fly off the track. This does not mean that the car was «sick». And yet there is a crisis.
What, in your opinion, is the reason for the increase in anxiety and depression in society today?
When we say «our days», we mean by this a fairly long period of time. For several decades now, depression has been increasing in our country, there are more crimes, drug abuse. All this began with the flourishing of our prosperity. Society is only then in peace of mind when it is not too good and not too bad, oddly enough. That is, when it is somewhere in the middle. And we, in comparison with other peoples and other times, are now incredibly well. Still. A person who lives well, he is prone to self-centeredness, a sense of superiority, some even talk about Nazism in our time. If you have everything, then what to strive for? What could be the tasks, goals, it is not clear. This is bad for humans too.
Is it possible to say that if people begin to live worse, then there will be fewer spiritual crises?
Definitely. Although it sounds tough and hard for someone to wish they had a hard time. And we rejoice when people are doing well, when they have enough food and so on, that is, when they do not have to suffer for material reasons. But when the economic situation worsens, relatives, family, real values come to the fore, it’s good if the ability to refuse something appears. That is, something important wakes up in a person when outwardly he is not so good.
“Society is only then in peace of mind when it is not too good and not too bad, oddly enough.”
Viktor Frankl emphasizes the importance of the spiritual…
Yes, he has a special concept of a person. After all, ideas about oneself, about a person, about the world or God — all this is very important for us. This determines our actions. For example, we know how to trust or not, and so on. And for Frankl, a person is something more than the mental and physical that we see in him. This is a special human quality that distinguishes him from animals and plants. And if you ask ordinary people: «What makes you human?» — they always know the answer: «This is the little freedom that I have»; «That’s when I can make a free choice.» That is not to be driven solely by instincts. Freedom implies responsibility for what I do. And another aspect is the question of values, what is good and what is bad, what is right and what is wrong, which excite a person. Animals do not ask questions about good and evil, right and wrong. And this is what Frankl called the human dimension.
Is he talking about the spirit?
Yes, about the spirit in the biblical sense — which was breathed into a person. This is a beautiful image when a soul was mysteriously breathed into something inanimate. And the spiritual in man is transcendent, it cannot be damaged, born or die. It is something of another level, connecting our life with the body. Leading to unity. The word “logotherapy” itself comes from the Greek “logos”, which also means the meaning of life. A person sets himself spiritual tasks, seeks the meaning of life and wants to fulfill it. This is all our spiritual side.
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But isn’t this the most difficult thing for so many people to find the meaning of life?
Yes, that is why we are in constant search. And it does not happen that someday we will gain something and this will be enough for us for the rest of our lives. We must make these attempts again and again. However, the search will be successful if the two aspects match. The first aspect: you need to understand what I’m good at. Because it is by applying my abilities that I can fulfill my tasks. Strengths (not weaknesses) help me to act. And another question — what does the world need? After all, he is not perfect. That is, there is always a need somewhere for someone to come and improve, correct, help. And when this occurs: on the one hand, my talents, gifts, abilities — and the lack of something, a gap on the other hand, there are gaps that can be closed precisely thanks to my talents and abilities. Then the person is happy and the world is happy. It’s like in a puzzle. When you need to pick up a small piece of exactly the same color and shape. This is a unique piece that will definitely close the hole in the picture. So are people, each unique and one of a kind in the world. And for everyone, until the last breath, there is such a gap in the outside world that he can superbly close. Thanks to his abilities. Even an old person or a disabled person. Or a paralyzed person who cannot move, but he can pray for someone, bring peace and harmony.
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What is «high» therapy according to Frankl?
The peculiarity of Frankl’s «high» therapy is that he necessarily attracts this spiritual level. There are, of course, diseases when it is necessary to use medicines, psychotechnics. But there are so many forces in a person that have a spiritual root. For example — the ability of the spirit to act «in spite of», the resistance of the spirit, the power to overcome. For example, a woman has been sexually assaulted. And now, at the sight of any man, she will feel distrust and fear towards him. But it may happen that she meets a good man whom she could love. And then the question arises whether this spirit of overcoming will help convince her that this person is not to blame for anything. “I need him and me to have a chance, despite the fact that he is a man (and I have such a hard experience).”
Is there any way to strengthen this spirit of opposition?
Yes, to be stronger than our weakness. This is the ability to overcome oneself with spiritual forces. There are, for example, suicidal people who suffer from severe depression. When depression worsens, they feel so bad that they want to die. And with all the strength of their souls they strive for death as a deliverance. And we say to them: still don’t do it. For the sake of your children, so that they do not have such a negative example. So that they, being in a difficult situation, do not follow you. Look, you are now faced with a choice between your desire and the danger to your children. And people understand this. And they agree to live. This is spiritual self-transcendence.
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Can a person overcome a mental crisis on his own?
Yes and no. With a healthy lifestyle, a lot can be avoided. But on the other hand, problems are an integral part of life. And there’s nothing you can do about it. There are always some difficulties — illness, unemployment, loss of loved ones. Shocks cannot be avoided. However, you can see the meaning of your life in what you do, it helps to cope with problems. If you say: despite this, I can do something good, or — I still have a task that I have not yet completed. This makes it possible to survive, even during a crisis.
In your books you write all the time about trust in God, faith in him and humility before him.
I am not a theologian. I think that, on the one hand, trust in God is a kind of gift, a virtue. We get it, but not from our parents. This is a reminder of the Creator, of creation, already almost forgotten, unconscious. Difficult experiences, difficult experiences can drown out this in us. But it can be «unearthed» from the rubble. However, this cannot be done without one’s own effort, without opening oneself to the unknown. Frankl believed that faith in a person is impossible without the fact that he himself did not say “yes” to this. It’s not just a gift that we accept. So it is in relationships with other people. We must make an effort ourselves, reach out. And then there can be trust.