Prof. Piotr Kuna: you have to stop using the word pandemic and start treating the virus normally

In medicine, the path to solving a problem can be bumpy, and sometimes, to achieve a goal, you have to leave it or turn back. It is important not to harm patients. Prof. Piotr Kuna believes that the managers of the COVID-19 epidemic have taken the wrong direction. And it was enough to give up scaring the public, start telling the truth and explain the results of scientific research. It is them, and not emotions, that those in power should be guided by when making decisions. Therefore, according to the expert, it is time to end the dazzle with the numbers of new infections and deaths. It’s time to let people live a normal life and treat the virus like any other seasonal virus that causes respiratory infections. Otherwise, we will still have the impression that we are sitting on a time bomb, which does not know when and with what power it will explode …

1. – We should abandon the term fourth wave as soon as possible. We also need to stop using the word pandemic and start treating this virus as normal, like any seasonal virus that causes respiratory infections, says Prof. Piotr Kuna
2. According to the expert, the coronavirus should not be treated in a special way, and vaccinations are the perfect weapon to fight it.
3. Prof. Kuna believes that the management of the outbreak has been focused on emotions, not research. – This has led to a huge increase in the number of noncovid deaths, to a huge excess mortality – he says in an interview with Medonet
4. You can find more such stories on the TvoiLokony home page

Monika Zieleniewska, MedTvoiLokony: The Ministry of Health has already announced the fourth wave of the pandemic in the fall. Do you agree with this forecast?

Prof. dr hab. n. med. Piotr Kuna: It all depends on how we define it. Whether as an increase in the number of people tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, or in terms of hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID-19.

Currently, a pandemic has been defined based on the number of positive test results for the virus in a population of a certain size. In addition, very sensitive diagnostic methods are used – RT-PCR, which already detects 10-20 fragments of the virus genetic material, hence many positive results, and no COVID-19 symptoms, because such a number of virus particles is not capable of causing the disease.

For example, if we adopted the same criteria, for example, to study the streptococcal angina epidemic, it would turn out that most Poles have strep throat, because almost everyone has streptococci in the respiratory tract. In my opinion, the only hard criteria are the number of patients in the ICU and deaths from SARS-CoV-2 alone, as it is known that any infection exacerbates and worsens chronic diseases, and the virus does the same.

Now the definition is probably based on test results?

In my opinion, this is a mistake. We have a lot of viruses that cause respiratory infections. These are influenza viruses, RSV viruses, adenoviruses, and there are other coronaviruses that cause seasonal infections. We have lived with them, as you know, for thousands of years and we have survived, that is, we got used to it, and I believe that the same should be done with the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

Let me remind you of a few facts: everyone knows that after World War I, during the flu epidemic, called the Spanish flu, 50 million people died in Europe. There was one such epidemic, because once people came into contact with the virus, they developed immunity. Then came vaccinations … In general, influenza is still dangerous for those suffering from heart disease, cardiovascular disease and cancer, as it increases the risk of death. However, no one says that it is dangerous to healthy people. I think adaptation to the new SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus occurs in the same way. I emphasize this word – the new coronavirus.

In my opinion, every person in Poland has encountered this virus already. Part of the population got sick, some got vaccinated and in fact we should give up the term fourth wave as soon as possible. You also need to stop using the word pandemic and start treating this virus as normal, like any seasonal virus that causes respiratory infections.

Oh, I think we are far from there.

I am a doctor and scientist, I try to keep up to date with scientific reports on COVID-19 disease, and at the same time I observe the activities of various governments and see a complete separation of knowledge about the virus and its epidemiology from the current moves by officials. How, then, are citizens who do not have medical knowledge to find themselves in it?

I will say more, at the moment the United Kingdom reports almost 50. positive results of the SARS-CoV-2 virus test, and several dozen deaths a day caused by the Delta variant, of which two-thirds (66%) of the dead are already vaccinated people. Despite this, from July 19, it completely removes the restrictions related to the pandemic. Quite simply, the number of deaths in relation to the number of infected is very small and no longer a burden on the medical care system. The results are close to the risk from the influenza virus. This shows how effective disease and vaccination were in preventing deaths.

Honestly, the SARS-CoV-2 vaccination is more effective than the flu vaccination, much more effective. So we have an excellent weapon, and these weapons are currently available vaccines. This virus is now commonplace and should not be treated in any particular way. So showing off how many positive people there are and scaring have nothing to do with the current knowledge, with what is happening … sense of the word. I have no doubts about that.

An example is still the United Kingdom, where every day 50 thousand. people have a confirmed virus, while in Poland there are currently several dozen people, which is almost a thousand times less, but the United Kingdom keeps quarantine for those coming from Poland – as I read this information, I wonder where the logic in this proceeding?

1. See more: Why does the UK lift restrictions as the number of infected rises?

So you are critical of the policy of managing the epidemic on a global scale?

From the beginning of the pandemic, I have observed that most of the decisions made are not based on knowledge, on the results of scientific research, but on emotions. Here they dominate, and I think they are unnecessary and harmful. It was this excitement that led to the enormous increase in the number of noncovid deaths, to the enormous excess mortality. We have taken out a gigantic health debt that we will pay for years. As I mentioned – England 50 infections daily and tolerates exacerbations; at the opposite extreme, Australia – a few positive people and shutting down entire regions and cities entirely for weeks.

Many doctors notice this …

Let me put it this way – I was seeing the sick yesterday. 20 percent the ones I saw for the first time were patients with disseminated neoplastic processes that had not been captured early enough, precisely due to covid. The patients said directly that they called the clinic, asked, but only teleporting was in force. No doctor wanted to see them personally, none wanted to examine them. And we now have lung cancers that are incurable, and the patients are likely to die within six months. If there were no covid, they would still be alive and be treated effectively. Here is a simple example from one day of practice.

The increase in undiagnosed neoplasms at the level of 20%. it’s a lot!

I believe it’s a drama. What awaits us now is not covid deaths. We are facing problems related to neglect of treatment of neoplastic diseases, cardiovascular diseases and many others, a sharp increase in deaths, excess mortality … We will be diminishing very quickly in terms of population, and this is the result of neglect and earlier decisions to limit access to health care. Because he was clearly limited, and now it is very difficult to return to normal work.

Now the ministry is focusing on promoting vaccination against COVID-19, including childhood immunization.

Studies on the effectiveness of vaccinations have been conducted in people from 16 years of age and the results say that they can be vaccinated safely. The study of children between 12 and 16 years of age concerned the safety of the vaccine and we know that it is safe for sure, but it is difficult for me to say whether it will protect against diseases, as such studies have not been done in children. Only adult experiences were transferred.

It is up to the parents and their children to decide whether or not to get the vaccine, because even 12-year-olds should be able to decide whether or not to get vaccinated. I am an advocate of vaccination. I believe there is already evidence that they protect against the severe course of COVID-19, against death, so we should get vaccinated. At the same time, I talk to patients who have not been vaccinated. These are people with chronic diseases …

And what is their position?

They do not want to vaccinate, arguing that the vaccine has not been tested in its entirety, but only approved as an emergency treatment. Others say that the virus was brought in by God and you cannot oppose its decisions, and I say that the vaccine is also from God and there is silence here because the Church does not think so. Patients are surprised that a year and a half of the pandemic has passed, the tests were completed almost a year ago, and we do not have any new studies to confirm its safety and expand our knowledge. As if emergency use is meant to serve us all our lives. I cannot answer the questions as to whether further research is being carried out and whether, indeed, a normal full registration should not take place. I explain to patients that most vaccines work against all known mutations of the coronavirus, including the Indian one, and protect against hospitalization and death, although it does not protect against virus infection as well. So it’s better to get vaccinated than to get seriously ill.

However, I do not understand why there are no further publications that will confirm what we already know from the first part of clinical trials. Although there are interesting analyzes, such as the one from Great Britain, about the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among household members. In the absence of vaccinations, it was set at 10%, and if all are vaccinated, it is 5%.

1. Editors recommend: Increases in infections in Israel and the UK. Do vaccines work? The expert comments

This somehow explains the motivations of the undecided.

Even the Ministry of Health provides them with arguments, because if it is said that vaccines protect against infection, and then in England or Israel, where the majority of the population has vaccinated, there are tens of thousands of new infections, it indicates that vaccines do not protect against infection, but against COVID-19 disease. However, this must be clearly regulated in advance and said out loud.

Infection with the virus, a positive SARS-CoV-2 result does not mean COVID-19 disease. People don’t see this significant difference. It must be said: dear ones, we protect you from death, we protect you from hospitalization, from serious illness, disability, but you can still get infected.

However, people should be allowed to function normally and deviate from restrictive restrictions where it is not really necessary. Let’s treat this virus like any other respiratory virus, because we can also get infected with other viruses. This is what is happening in England, it has already happened in Singapore.

Let’s end this stigma, how many people are positive today, how many people are in quarantine. If we want to be such an open society and there is such a great demand for information on the state of our health, let’s also publish data on how many people a day get a stroke, how many develop cancer, etc.

The pandemic lasts for a year and a half, it’s time to end the daily dazzling data. Influenza viruses are monitored and reported too, and RSV viruses are monitored, but nobody announces it to the public. Let’s treat SARS-CoV-2 like any other virus. The sooner we do it, the better the effect will be, because we will stop intimidating a society that is suffering from an epidemic of neuroses and anxiety. I know bad news sells much better than good news, but the price we pay for it is too high.

Can scare be counterproductive?

I have the impression that many people are acting against the recommendations at the moment, because they see an inconsistency between the official message and what is happening in other countries. The world is open and people get their information from different sources, so you also need to be honest about telling them what it is like. Be based on complete and reliable scientific data, and not extract fragments of research selected in accordance with the need of the moment or some interest.

For me, it was shocking at first that Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister of Great Britain, officially announces that there will be 50. positive results of coronavirus tests daily, and at the same time abolishes the obligation to wear masks and all other restrictions. So what is it like? Is this epidemic or not? Do you have to wear masks or not? However, I quickly understood that it was telling the truth to society and going to normal life with the virus among us.

If we are to treat the new coronavirus similarly to other respiratory viruses known to us, then, for example, distance learning in the new school year would be pointless?

I have grandchildren and I know what the remote classes were like. The damage done to the education of children and young people is enormous. It will be many years before we make up for them. Maintaining distance learning destroys the most vulnerable fabric of society: children. In medicine, it’s not like we always choose the right solution and we can always cure the disease. We often have to choose the lesser evil, but most of all we cannot do harm.

I believe that hybrid teaching does more harm than good. In my opinion, going back to school will not increase the risk of death or severe COVID-19. Instead of considering distance learning, let’s try to improve vaccination availability. This is the most important thing now. So that anyone who wishes to get vaccinated can go and do it immediately without any record.

Let’s also start thinking about the third dose of the vaccine in the fall, in the light of available studies it is safe and positively improves immunity to the virus, although not all governments think so, e.g. the US government has recently rejected a similar proposal and at the same time maintained a ban on traveling to the US from Europe. Where’s the logic here?

Will a third dose of the vaccine be necessary?

In my opinion it will. For healthcare professionals, teachers. What about bus or tram drivers? And sellers in stores? And hotel employees – no? Too. All those who work in services and have contact with people. And hairdressers, and beauticians? If we want the economy to work, we should consider giving a third dose from September, especially to those who were vaccinated in January. We already have papers saying that it actually improves immunity by increasing the level of antibodies, and significantly.

1. Also read: Third dose already in some states. Will it also be in Poland?

Maybe then the hospitals will restore visits?

Please remember that hospitals are still testing the admitted patients, which extends the admission process and is very burdensome, especially for the elderly and the sick. I believe it should be the case that vaccinated people and those who have contracted COVID-19 are admitted to hospitals without testing. Of course, they can be tested for coronavirus during hospitalization, but they should be taken immediately without waiting for the result.

And a person with a vaccination certificate could visit the sick person?

I believe so, but there are other orders from above. Hospitals don’t invent them themselves. We try to make life easier for patients at all costs, but apparently this is not entirely in line with the recommendations of the Ministry of Health and GIS.

In conclusion – let’s not focus on the next lockdown, but on vaccinations?

We vaccinate, take the third dose, and end the pandemic. We get used to the virus and treat it just like any other virus. Finally, in the fall, we will definitely see more people tested positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but this does not mean that this person is infected. An example is the millions of people who are carriers of Staphylococcus aureus. And what? They have staphylococcus and are it contagious? They are carriers but do not infect. We know that just detecting a virus in the respiratory tract does not mean it is infectious. This also needs to be clearly said.

All these 14-day quarantines have no justification. The virus has been shown to be infectious for up to eight days from the moment it is first detected, although it can actually be found in the respiratory tract for up to two months after infection. But finding a virus in the respiratory tract has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it has the potential to infect anyone. Let’s stop panicking and let’s start basing decisions on knowledge.

So it turns out that the prime minister and the minister do not listen to the authorities gathered in the Medical Council?

I do not know. The council advises but does not make a decision. You can listen to the advice, but you don’t have to follow it at all. We also advise the children on various things, and they still have to experiment on their own.

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