Prof. Piotr Kuna: lockdown is evil, it will shorten our lives

It is not the first time that Professor Piotr Kuna declares himself to be a strong opponent of the lockdown. It is based on proven scientific data and a benefit and loss account. And these say that Poles incur a gigantic health debt, which they will pay off for many years. Therefore, the fight against the pandemic should focus on COVID-19 patients, allowing them to live a healthy life. Unfortunately, it is too late to change strategy, so vaccination is the salvation. Now is the time to convince the unconvinced.

1. The professor believes that the introduction of a lockdown will shorten Poles’ lives and cause epidemics of other diseases
2. Poland has the largest excess of noncovid deaths in Europe, three times greater than the EU average
3. – For the time of the pandemic, the division into specialist departments should be eliminated and only 100% of hospitals should be made. COVID and hospitals without COVID – says prof. Marten
4. It is disturbing that about 1/3 of the students of the medical university where prof. Marten is not convinced to vaccinate against coronaivrus
5. Do you want to live longer? Make a simple test and find out how!
6. You can find more such stories on the TvoiLokony home page

Monika Zieleniewska, MedTvoi In the last interview you gave to our editorial office at the end of October, you said that the lockdown was a catastrophic mistake. Meanwhile, the policy of closing society is doing great with us.

Prof. dr hab. n. med. Piotr Kuna: I don’t change my mind. Lockdown is evil. In addition to irreversible economic consequences, it results in incurring a health debt that the society will pay off for years.

What is going on?

Many people cannot get to a doctor or hospital and stop treatment. The number of cancer, cardiovascular and mental diseases is increasing. Treating them will cost us much more than the entire coronavirus pandemic. I am talking only about health costs, not economic costs, and I am relying on calculations made for the United States by the strategic and operational consulting firm McKinsey & Company.

But is lockdown in our interest?

It must be made clear what its effects are. As a doctor, I look not only at immediate benefits, but also at long-term effects, because my goal is for the patient to live as long as possible, in full health and strength. Unfortunately, lockdown will shorten our lives. It will cause epidemics of other diseases, perhaps worse than COVID-19, but not so media … Cancer kills quietly. 100 people die of cancer in Poland every year people, and I have never seen an action in the media informing the public how many people died of cancer each day. Television does not say how many new cases of lung cancer, colon cancer and breast cancer have been detected. This is not talked about.

The coronavirus pandemic has pushed all other diseases to the sidelines.

Official data from the National Health Fund say that the number of admissions to hospitals has dropped by 20-30%, and I wonder how this is possible? We admit to hospitals by 30 percent. fewer patients, and at the same time we can’t cope … This is an abstraction.

I have been managing a hospital for 18 years. We constantly had problems with free beds, there was always a shortage of places in the ICU, we worked in an atmosphere of drug shortage. There has never been too much of something, so it would seem that now that we have 30 percent. fewer patients, hospitals will start to function perfectly, and it turns out that they cannot cope even with COVID-19 patients. Therefore, for the duration of the pandemic, the division into specialist departments should be eliminated and only 100% of hospitals should be made. covid and COVID-19-free hospitals divided into non-surgical and treatment beds. Specialists are supposed to go to patients no matter where they lie, of course non-covid hospitals should have a real isolation just in case, which does not interfere with any hospital communication routes and has no connection with ventilation in other rooms.

Since you are not a professor of lockdown, what measures should we have taken to contain the pandemic?

For example, instant search for outbreaks of infection and, unfortunately, contact tracing. This can be done with today’s technology. Thanks to BTS stations, we will check who he contacted and where the user of the phone who has a positive test for coronavirus has been. We can trace the activity of him and his contacts up to four days back and order isolation on this basis. It was done in Korea, it was done in Taiwan.

Of course, I am aware that this violates human freedom and may be against the law; many of us have doubts about this, and so do I. But what is more important today: freedom or life? Please also think, we are in a situation where the infected for one year is slightly more than 5 percent. of society, and lockdown affects everyone, including the remaining 95 percent. people who have nothing to do with the virus. These people suffer no less than the sick, they lose their jobs, companies, livelihoods, so the question is whether it is better to focus on those who are infected, letting those who are not infected live a normal life.

Now is it too late?

Yes, it’s too late. As a doctor who sees the very plight of hospitals, I believe the government had no choice but to introduce a lockdown. Such thinking is a bit like schizophrenia, because at the same time I am opposed to lockdown, but I accept what has been done and even support it. There is no other option as no appropriate decisions have been made before. Why? This question is not for me anymore.

Do you think our health policy can be improved?

I think there are still a lot of possibilities. Let me give you a simple example – all the scientific studies to date show that from the moment of the onset of COVID-19 symptoms to the moment when the virus is no longer able to infect anyone, an average of 8 days, a maximum of 10. However, a positive PCR test result lasts an average of 35 days from the onset of symptoms. In Poland, a patient who is to be discharged from the hospital or transferred to another ward must show two negative PCR results. As a result, patients stay in hospitals unnecessarily, occupying the beds needed by others. This should be changed immediately. Make a clear recommendation, and no one does. Why doesn’t anyone want to listen to the experts? I don’t know, and I’m not the only one talking about this. Professor Flisiak from Białystok claims exactly the same.

After all, there is advice at the premiere.

The council advises but does not make a decision. Second, patients who are not infectious, have no comorbidities, and still have mild respiratory distress should be referred to home oxygen therapy centers. Lie at home, get a concentrator, breathe oxygen and be monitored. When their condition returns to normal, oxygen treatment may be discontinued. Such centers exist all over Poland. They can immediately offload units that treat COVID-19. It needs to be done in a week, you just have to have the courage to make a decision.

We rely on certain standards of treatment, but they are slightly different in each country. For me, the only true standards are based on the so-called GRADE system.

What is it about?

The system covers medical data based on high-quality scientific research combined with benefit-loss calculation. For example, I can give you a fantastic drug that will kill the virus, but it will also kill the patient. If I only focus on whether I will kill the virus and not look at whether I will kill the patient, then this is not going to be a complete analysis. Plus, COVID-19 isn’t a disease that ends on day 28. It takes longer and these long-term effects may be worse than an acute disease, so when treating, you need to look at the long-term effects.

Are you talking about the side effects of the treatment that will be revealed at a later date, professor?

Also about this. I did internships in American hospitals and there was such a rule: you must not keep a patient for more than 3 days. The risk of death doubles after 7 days, and quadruple after 14 days, etc. The longer the patient remains in the hospital, the greater the risk of death. I accept it all the time. I don’t treat patients on the phone, I just see them. Many have told me what their stay in covid hospitals was like.

What did he look like?

I am concerned that in many cases, I am not saying that in all cases, the conditions in the hospitals make the infection worsen and become life-threatening. If a patient who has a positive test result and a minor cough is admitted to the hospital and placed in a 5-person room where everyone has COVID-19, the door is locked, there is no toilet, and three people die on the first night on whom a new place is coming soon, let me just say – these patients produce an aerosol of the virus that will kill anyone.

We know that the severity of COVID-19 comes from exposure to and severity of exposure to the virus. The more virus we inhale, the more severe the disease. So if someone who has mild symptoms gets into such conditions, it’s no wonder that after seven days he gets respiratory failure, goes to the ICU, and dies there. These are often the young people who are healthy and die. Why? Because he got such a dose of the virus that he will kill even the young one.

How should a hospital with a covid ward look like now?

Single rooms, pavilion systems, separated from each other, where it is not possible to transmit infection from ward to ward and where infection is not spread through hospital ventilation. That the SARS-CoV-2 virus is spread via hospital ventilation is also proven. Therefore, I believe that if a patient can be treated at home, he should be treated there. Stay insulated, keep the room well ventilated, stay well hydrated, and stay moving. Because if I lock someone up in the covid ward, they must lie down, they must not walk.

If one writes now about blockages and blood clots, it includes a complication of people lying down with a fever and unable to move. You have to move! I understand that someone has severe shortness of breath, respiratory failure, but if he is not, he can not only lie down, he needs to be rehabilitated immediately, first of all, the movement of the lower limbs and pelvic muscles.

Apart from exercise, what else is important for coronavirus patients?

My patient, who barely survived, related the conditions under which he was hospitalized: “We didn’t even have water. I was thirsty, but there was no way to ask ”. And yet the most important thing in these patients is adequate hydration and it is not just about drips. If they do not rehydrate, there will be thromboembolic complications. I can list a whole litany of problems. This does not apply to all hospitals, but unfortunately there are also such …

So you have to change the procedures?

Many procedures are very good, but the question is, are they followed and can they be implemented? When I was a provincial consultant for internal medicine, I went to all hospitals in the province within a year. I visited every internal medicine ward, saw the working conditions, the equipment, the staff. I believe that covid wards should be checked by a commission in terms of the conditions in which they lie and epidemiological safety for other patients treated in the hospital.

If I put five sick people in one room, let’s forget that we are treating them. We can, of course, give medications, but exposure to viruses will be a hundred times worse for them, and no masks will help.

Hence the conclusion that our ability to control the virus is quite deceptive?

It is enough to reach for simple data, how many patients contracted the virus during their stay in hospitals, I suspect that there are so many patients. Honestly, you can’t totally control this virus, it’s wishful thinking. Total control is catching infections at a very early stage and isolating them. Isolating such a person for two weeks for observation. This was done, among others in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, and as you can see, the problem is gone. And yet Asia is the fire, that’s where it all began.

Unfortunately, our country is organizationally unable to cope with it. We live the way we live, the recommendations are inconsistent, inconsistent, so let’s not delude ourselves that we will get the virus under control. We will not master. Only vaccinations can save our society.

Was it then reasonable to recommend limiting scheduled procedures in hospitals?

I consider it harmful to the sick. As I mentioned, we incur a gigantic health debt. Our lives will be shortened, we will have more premature deaths. At the moment, Poland, and this is official EU data, has the largest excess of non-covid deaths in Europe. Probably three times more than the EU average. This is the debt. We should organize health care in such a way as to efficiently treat COVID-19 and all other patients with chronic diseases, both in hospitals and outpatient clinics. This is the most important condition, but we were unable to do it. Here we failed.

Let us remind you that there are practically no drugs for COVID-19, in Poland we only talk about drugs based on the plasma of convalescents.

At first, I deeply believed in them, but unfortunately the published clinical studies show negative results. Only in Poland are they positive. Meta-analyzes, i.e. analyzes of all available studies, have shown that these drugs are ineffective. The US Food and Drug Administration has banned further research. There are even studies showing that in the long term, plasma treatment increases mortality as we provide clotting factors that are followed by thromboembolic complications. The most important thing is to administer fluids and anticoagulants such as heparin or oral anticoagulants.

Experts say in interviews that we will take off our masks in the fall, what do you say?

I don’t know if we will take it off, I doubt it, although I would like it to everyone. Please note that we have numerous side effects of wearing masks, disinfecting hands and keeping distance, e.g. lowering immunity in the entire population. The permanent lack of minimal exposure to viruses and bacteria makes our immune system lazy and weak.

Will we be less resistant to other viruses without masks?

We are exposed to 200 billion bacteria and viruses while breathing in, but our immune system has dealt with them very well so far. If a new virus appears, we have to generate immunity, and now the development of immunity to the SARS-CoV-2 virus is underway. Once it develops, the coronavirus will become the same as the flu virus. However, it takes time, so the most important thing is to get vaccinated as soon as possible.

However, I am an optimist, I think that, first of all, the number of infections will start to decline at the end of April, in May the situation will calm down, because with the change of season and the increasing number of people vaccinated, there will be less infections.

Will the decline in infections be due to the climate, not the lockdown?

It was the same in December and January. There are always fewer viral infections in these months, so it was probably due to the natural mechanisms of nature. I believe that if 5 million people are successfully vaccinated every month starting from April, which means 15 million people vaccinated by the end of June, then we can go on vacation and look positively in autumn. However, in October and November the number of people with a positive result will probably increase again. If only because not everyone wants to get vaccinated.

Why do they not believe in the achievements of science?

Let’s be honest, I had a class today with a group of medical students and I asked them a simple question – how many of you are unvaccinated? Exactly one third, 33 percent. I asked why. They said they had doubts, they didn’t believe, they were afraid.

If future doctors have doubts and I cannot convince them, other teachers cannot convince them, the minister of health cannot convince them, the prime minister cannot, then the question arises who will convince the rest of the society? Honestly, this is the problem.

I think that one third of the population will not get vaccinated, which is about 12 million Poles. These people will become infected and get sick.

If medical students do not believe in her achievements, is there something wrong?

It is the fault of the school, politicians who publicly undermine the achievements of science and faith in social leaders; authorities have been destroyed. I read research and try to convey the available knowledge in a fair and honest way, without darkening and without fierce, but I meet the wall. Students engage in discussions with me, have their arguments, I even get vaccinations denying papers, there are many of them. They are not anti-vaccines, they got vaccinated before, but they don’t want COVID-19.

This is interesting!

I was surprised by the scale of the problem. I did not expect that. Negative information about vaccines from the press, television, the Internet, and social media are more catchy than the positive ones. If I say that I am able to cure everyone of COVID-19, it will be less widely read than when I say that the vaccine is harmful – many will believe it. This is life…

The editorial board recommends:

1. Prof. Piotr Kuna: There is no proof that lockdown will help us win the war against the virus
2. Side effects of COVID-19 vaccines [COMPARISON]
3. Do you suspect that you have had contact with a person infected with the coronavirus? Not sure what the symptoms of infection are and when they can occur? Do you want to take a test? [WE EXPLAIN]
4. Scientists: Vaccines may not be enough to stop a pandemic

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