– Ladies were standing in front of the hospital, smoking cigarettes. One of them asked: Mr. Jerzy, advise me, what should I say to my husband? Because he’s lying there in the ward and I’m afraid to go to him. “Strangers often know how to talk about cancer better than family,” recalls Jerzy Stuhr. – I did not even tell my wife about my pain and suffering, but I felt that now I had to do it for others – he says about his participation in the “Letter to the caregiver” campaign, in which the patients talk about the support of their relatives they are most grateful for.
- Fortunately, my wife did not change my diapers. I fainted only a few times, so her “nursing” care was limited to the fact that she knew where and whom to call – recalls Jerzy Stuhr
- Jerzy Stuhr became the face of the “Letter to the Guardian” campaign. It is to show how important and how difficult it is to support loved ones in oncological disease. – We don’t know what to say, how to support the closest person “
- This belief that “cancer must hurt”, that “childbirth must hurt” is not Polish, but it is Catholic. In Naples, there are also those who whip themselves on Good Friday – says Jerzy Stuhr
- I did not admit that I was sick. L lied. I accepted the offer of a role in an Italian film. I didn’t know if I would have time to play. A week after leaving the hospital, I landed in Italy. When they saw me… I lost 30 kg, so they figured it out
Agnieszka Sztyler-Turovsky: How did you feel as a man when suddenly the roles were reversed and it was not your wife who looked after your wife, but your wife the Lord?
Jerzy Stuhr: I had a feeling that my wife was protected in the will, so I took care of my wife (laughs).
(Laughter) Well, but….
I am honest with you. I did so, and then I was able to devote myself completely to my wife’s arms. I knew that if something happened, it would be secured.
Well, yes, but I assume that there was also another level of your relationship, not just a barter exchange – care for the record in the will.
From the very beginning, my wife had a greater knowledge of the disease than I did, if only because she worked at Unicorn [Stowarzyszenie Wspierania Onkologii – ed.], She had contact with patients on a daily basis, she knew how to organize care for them. I was green. She knew who to turn to – who to seek advice from, not only in Poland, but also abroad. It is unusual, but my wife has been sensing things in our family for years, thanks to her intuition. My father’s disease, our daughter’s disease, and finally mine. When I fell ill, my wife was already an experienced “nurse”.
And to what extent did you allow your wife to be your nurse? It wasn’t embarrassing for you?
Not. Fortunately, I did not have to perform such typical nursing activities. I fainted only a few times in front of my wife, so the “nursing” care was limited to the fact that my wife knew where and whom to call. There was no need for her to change diapers.
It is said that the whole family suffers from cancer. When cancer strikes a husband or wife, does the marriage get sick?
It depends on what the marriage looks like! (laughter). I am not joking.
How bad is it between people it gets worse?
The greatest danger is fear. People are afraid to talk about it. They are afraid to take a position on this and just boldly admit their illness. I am a recognizable person and I remember coming to the hospital for treatment. Ladies were standing in front of him, smoking cigarettes. One of them asked me: “Mr. Jerzy, please advise me, what should I say to my husband? Because he’s lying over there on the ward, and I’m afraid to go to him up there ”. The wives were afraid to go talk to their sick husbands. We don’t know what to say, how to support a loved one.
Although it’s a bit strange that we don’t know, since we are the closest to each other.
Sometimes a stranger knows better how to talk to us than the person closest to us. And it does not depend on family relations at all. Simply, such support of a loved one in an illness is extremely difficult.
What advice would you give to someone who is afraid to talk to their loved ones so as not to make everything worse?
I’m not a psychologist, I’m an actor. You ask me for difficult questions. (laughter).
You played in so many people as an actor that you must be a good psychologist (laughs).
On top, on top (laughs). Not deeply. I am still afraid to talk about these things, because I am an amateur, but I think that first of all it has to be called. Do not say that no one knows what, that there is such a weakness … boldly say: “Cancer, and what?”. This is crucial. This is the start. Boldly say “cancer.” Then we go on. “We want to fight? We want? ”,“ Will I help you? I’ll help.
This help, what should it look like?
A healthy person must organize everything. This is extremely important because it comes such a phase of the disease that you can’t concentrate anymore. You don’t know what to do. You are dazed like a drug addict. Drugs, chemicals. Some people tolerate it better, others worse – it also depends on the type of chemistry. And someone just has to take over the organization of everything. Say to you, “now you must take this and this”, “now you must eat this, now you must rest”, “you must not this, you must not this.”
It’s like the other person suddenly becomes a child.
Yes, but on the other hand, the person closest to you, who decided to get sick with you, must leave you a margin of freedom. Otherwise, it is already humiliation, and it is to the greatest extent. Even so, the hospital is very humiliating. And that’s enough. And the other person who gives you a break between hospital stays, peregrinations after doctors, should pretend that everything is normal, that you can put on a clean shirt, go for a walk, although everything is under control. My wife was doing just that.
Did you play in front of your wife who was healthier than in reality or did you fall apart?
I didn’t play, but I didn’t tell her about some things. Not because I wanted to “play” a bit, but because some things simply cannot be expressed.
Because you are excruciatingly lonely, even with the closest person – with your wife?
I couldn’t find words to express my condition. I knew I had to deal with this alone. And I wanted to deal with it alone. I didn’t want to burden my wife with myself. I come from a rather discreet family. My father hid his illness to the end. I think I inherited it from him. The biggest struggle was in the hospital. Except for the eyes of my loved ones.
Probably not everything could be hidden?
I don’t remember, but I really haven’t talked about how I feel. The wife, of course, read the medical records, knew the history and methods of treatment. And I did not tell her about my pain and suffering. I didn’t want to open up like that. And so every evening I have to reveal myself to people in the theater.
Yet you have chosen to be the face of two campaigns on the disease. First, it was related to the fight against pain, now about the support of loved ones.
I did it, but not for myself. Fortunately, I was on classic drugs – painkillers. Somehow I endured this pain and I didn’t need stronger drugs. However, I saw how people around me suffered. It was such a pain that you cannot tell the other person. Then I was looking at someone and I was thinking, “Why don’t they give him a stronger drug ?! Why don’t they just desensitize him ?! ” And when someone suggested a campaign related to the fight for access to pain treatment, I couldn’t refuse.
We still have a painful problem in Poland. For example from the so-called medical marijuana.
Yes, we are fighting for it.
Do you think that this is a Polish belief that “cancer must hurt”, that “childbirth must hurt”?
Not Polish, but Catholic. There are also those in Naples who whip themselves on Good Friday.
Nevertheless, Italians seem more joyful than Poles.
It is also probably not typically Polish, but also Slavic at all. Such a Slavic sadness.
And was the Lord sad in sickness? Or rather aggressive and arguing with his family for any reason?
I wasn’t aggressive. I was closing in on myself. Sure I was irritated because it’s easier to upset you when you struggle with such an illness, but I remember that time of illness as a time of great silence. At home and in the hospital. Perhaps also because, of course, my conditions were good – in hospitals I was lying alone in the room.
Silence can be soothing, but also disheartening when you are alone with your thoughts …
It was a lot, but for me the silence was often soothing. This is how I perceived her, perhaps because my whole life is usually in a mess – in screams, in commands on the set. And when it suddenly fell off me, I thought: “Oh, you can write, because finally there is silence. Nobody is poking me, I don’t want interviews (laughs). It was such a psychological reaction to half my life.
Reaction, not fear?
No, not fear. I was prepared for any eventuality.
For me, it’s quite unusual and amazing.
I wanted to live. Of course I wanted to. But I thought, “I am already alive. I did what I did. “
And you didn’t have any plans for the future?
I just wanted to see my granddaughter.
Managed to?
It did. Managed to. He is already six years old. In a few days I am going to her for a performance at the end of the school year. Back then, I didn’t even know if it would be a granddaughter. But it was a great strength.
If you were to give your granddaughter one life advice, what would you tell her?
I wrote a book for her. Because today children are so unfocused, run-off. They are busy with their lives. Maybe someday, years later, he will read this book?
You didn’t make professional plans then?
I accepted a role in an Italian film (“L’ultimo Papa Re”, 2013 – ed.) And I did not admit that I was sick. L lied. The producers didn’t know about the disease, and I didn’t tell you, but I put off signing the contract indefinitely. And I was preparing for the movie all the time. I was learning the role all the time. It was a bit abstract because I didn’t know if I would have time to play. And the role was a difficult role, in a foreign language. A week after leaving the hospital, I landed in Italy. When they saw me getting out of the taxi that was taking me from the airport …
They noticed?
I lost 30 kg less so it was easy to orientate.
What to do to survive such a disease?
The worst thing is to give up your life. How much did I listen, even from the doctors: “Mr. Jerzy, talk to my patient, because he does not want to live.” You have to cling to life by all means. Searching for the most beautiful moments, wanting to confide those memories to someone. Relive them, see old photos. Because it may so happen that we may not experience such things anymore. I wanted things like that then. And I still had ambitions to write it down. The willingness to do it. Though I didn’t know what could happen every next day. What if this is the last date on this journal? Here you are.
Which event did you especially remember when writing your diary?
I don’t want to confide in you with too intimate memories, but after all, they were always family memories. And with friends. It so happened in my life that I outlived all my friends. There were three or four people. I still have Ms Krystyna [Janda-ed.]. She will outlive me (laughs). Although I had a rich professional life and many beautiful moments associated with it, the most beautiful memories have always been about my family, for example our vacation. Yes, always family. Never let down.