Irina Khakamada: “It is useful to dive into the very depths of despair”

One thing does not change — if Irina Khakamada is nearby and there are a lot of people around, you don’t see anyone but her. The absolute feeling that you are in solitude talking with her one on one. She is free, direct, many of her ideas are shocking. But even with maximum openness, it seems that there is some other side of Khakamada, like the other side of the Moon, which no one sees.

“I would like to meet the real you. What are you? “My friend said I was a little girl inside. If we formulate it as in a psychoanalytic session, then the image is simple: a pioneer camp, a little girl lies on the last bunk by the window. He looks out the window, hates this camp, misses home and, to overcome this, closes his eyes and begins to fantasize. She flies away to her imaginary world, and this calms her down.

Psychologies: Do you often feel like this girl?

Only in moments of serious problems. And then I feel sorry for this girl, caress and explain to her that we will break through.

And position yourself as a fearless samurai. I wonder what you, samurai, are afraid of?

After the death of my husband, I am not afraid of anything.

For many, you are a role model, they follow your life daily on Instagram (an extremist organization banned in Russia). And now subscribers are perplexed: why nothing has changed after the death of Vladimir — the same motivating videos, photos from trips. Zero comments, zero emotions.

I’m not a hired instagram mourner … (an extremist organization banned in Russia)

But people are used to you being frank with them. The events of your life even formed the basis of the Hackamaton marathon.

Hackamaton is my life! There are no lectures, there are tasks that I come up with, starting from my life. For example, I propose to cut into pieces your favorite thing. This does not mean that I myself did this, but I gave up a lot of pleasant, profitable, comfortable things in order to move on. Favorite thing is a symbol. Life plunged me into difficult situations, and I solved them myself, without any coaches, business coaches, psychologists and courses.

Now life has plunged you into a tragic situation. Perhaps you will push off from this point and the marathon will have tasks that will help participants cope with the loss?

I’ve been through so much more than that! My child had cancer. And survived. I went to the terrorists at Nord-Ost, knowing that they could kill me or leave me hostage … There is no point in devoting a whole course to the death of my husband. In addition, I am unlikely to help anyone, I myself do not yet know how to survive the loss. Is it easy? The person with whom you lived for 25 years died, and you forgot him? I haven’t experienced it yet. I will watch. I do not read psychological books, I work with myself.

Shortly before the death of your husband, you went on a big trip to Peru and Brazil, shared your impressions with subscribers. It seemed to me that for you it was a lift, euphoria and happiness.

There was no happiness, because nine months before that, her husband had undergone a complicated heart operation and miraculously escaped. There was anxiety. I persuaded him to continue treatment. He refused, and I warned: «You will die.» That’s all.

You have repeatedly said that you agreed on an open relationship, realizing that the fourth husband, like the previous ones, will cheat on you. And how did Vladimir take it? You are a public person and did not hide parallel novels. The lovers were getting younger, with one of them, 30 years younger than you, you were happy for a long time.

She and her husband knew each other. Volodya was not jealous. And the fact that information about an open marriage went into public space pleased her husband. He wanted great freedom. And due to the fact that I talked about it everywhere, I got even more popularity among girls. They stuck to him and repeated: “Are you the husband of Khakamada? And no problem, because you have a free marriage!”

Can you be happy in this kind of relationship?

For me, the concept of «happiness» is not associated with men, but with self-realization. Men are in second place, and the husband knew it. That is why we have an open marriage. And so Volodya behaved so freely, he understood that I would not belong to him and would not serve.

I can love him, take care of him, feed him, caress him, stroke his head. But the main thing for me is to do what I like for people. And that they also liked it, and paid money for it. All! And so in my life with my husband I managed to change so many things! I came up with so many projects! Volodya always supported them, but did not help. No money, no ideas. And I helped him psychologically if he had conflicts with people, because he was a hot guy.

Do you have the feeling that men are changing — they have become weaker, they have less energy than before?

And there is! An imbalance has occurred. There is something wrong with men. Previously, a mammoth helped them. It was necessary to hunt, take risks … Then heavy industry helped. Then — wars, large construction projects. The man was in charge. But the information age, the digital economy, has come, and the man is lost.

His physical strength is not in demand now, and he is weakening energetically. That’s why a lot of people do extreme sports, Ironman is very popular. And even among adults with a lot of weight. When they say to me: “I signed up for Ironman, I’m taking training,” I think: “Suicide.” He will crash somewhere. But the adrenaline…

There are always a lot of men around you. Do you get energy from them?

No. I have always been a breadwinner. Especially for young men. Their sexual energy is fleeting. If the age difference is large, this exchange is not in your favor. They suck their mother like babies. Sticky because you have your energy. Sexual energy is important to me, but it is secondary compared to the higher energy — the energy of self-realization.

It seems to me that you are deceitful. You become sexier, more interesting, brighter with age. Where others lose, you gain. For many, you are an object of desire.

The object of desire — yes. One young man, dancing with me, said to me: “I congratulate you, you pissed off your old age. I have three 18-year-old girls sitting at the next table whom I invited. I’m dancing with you, and they’re mad with jealousy.» But it has nothing to do with sexuality. And with the energy of youth — this is movement, the development of one’s personality, changes if it becomes boring.

I’m not afraid to change my life. That is why there were so many marriages, activities and the most risky steps. Do you know many people who have changed so much in their lives? Unlikely. That’s why everyone gets old, but I don’t. I was a scientist, a businessman, a politician, now a motivational speaker, and this is not the end.

Which road was the most difficult to cross?

Leaving politics was difficult. I did not just leave, but left at the peak, after the presidential campaign, which I myself conducted. She went into silence. There was depression. There was no money, no job, and no desire to continue in politics. Nothing turned me on until I started writing a novel. And somehow I got on a new road. But first I had to hit the bottom. It is useful to dive into the very depths of despair. Dive in and figure out what you’re missing. And what you lack, provide for yourself. What are you missing here?

I always miss love.

Understand why. Maybe there was not enough love in the family? Probably, dad, mom didn’t love, didn’t caress?

There was a lot of love. I am long awaited. Apparently, the reason lies elsewhere… By the way, you yourself call yourself a “disliked child”, why?

My father did not love me and did not want to. Mom even almost had an abortion under his pressure. Although she always loved me very much, for which I am very grateful to her. And I am grateful to my father for giving me a strong character, and, by the way, for dislike. She stimulated, I learned to do everything myself and be responsible for my life. I became close to my father only six months before his death from cancer. He was 80 years old.

He left my mother and me a long time ago for another woman, hoping that she, being a nurse, would provide him with a wonderful old age. But when you plan your destiny like that, you are working with the devil. She turned out to be an alcoholic, and a beautiful old age did not happen. Dad was nervous, began to come to us more often.

It was important for my father that I had already started making money in a private business, got on my feet, defended my dissertation, became an assistant professor and at the same time a co-operator. This earned him respect. We got close. But he never loved me.

Has your relationship with your parents affected your relationship with your children?

Certainly. I did everything to make my sons and daughter feel that they have a loving mother. And at the same time, replacing the peasant, I pushed the guys into an independent life. And they are grateful, both have become very independent. They never asked me for money.

The adopted son is engaged in IT business in America. Native in Hong Kong — finance in a Russian corporation. The adopted son has one child, the native has three. I communicate with them via video call. Coronavirus, Hong Kong closed. I used to fly there every spring. The boy and the older girl are blond, like their mother. The middle granddaughter subtly resembles me. Skinny like a ballerina. She has dark skin, long blonde hair. The eyes are slightly slanted. I see myself in her.

What kind of grandmother are you?

I’m not sentimental. When I come to Hong Kong, friends of my son and his wife invite me everywhere. We hang out at restaurants, yachts, dances, songs, guests. The grandchildren are with us, but they see me in the crowd. We return at night, I go to sleep, wake up in the morning, I can go to the beach with them, but they need to go to school. And when they return, I’m already dumping somewhere. I’m a shitty grandma. But they love me very much.

Your daughter Masha recently got a job. She draws for the project “Naive? Very!”, goes to the office. How not to worry about a special child? Do not live in constant anxiety for him?

Do everything to make the child happy and live for today. I don’t think about Masha’s future. You may not believe me, but it is true. Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity teach: live here and now. I can make my brain stop thinking. The more trouble a person overcomes, the easier it is to come to this. I had a lot of troubles, I trained. If your child has cancer and you are treating him, what will you think about every day? Will he die or live? Then you yourself will die earlier. You just live every day. And rejoice that the child is alive and well.

Have there been meetings in your life that changed you?

Oh sure! With my husbands. The first time I got married at 18. He was older and loved me very much. With him, I realized that I can love. The second fascinated me with science. I defended my dissertation. The third was especially cruel, he taught me business behavior and courage. Being rich, he didn’t give me a dime for elections. I found them with the bandits, who then planned to kill me. He taught that you can only rely on yourself.

And the last husband, the kingdom of heaven to him, taught me to accept polygamy. The third one was also polygamous, but he didn’t give a damn about my feelings. He said: «I went!» — and I watched him put the girls in the car and take them away. And the fourth was charming, he tied to himself. Gently and without offending me, he taught me this model, and I began to live a free schedule. Volodya also fascinated me with electronic music. This is my love and my meditation. He listened to it at home, and I dragged him to parties. Then he began to fly around these parties in such a way that, perhaps, his heart could not stand it.

What are you looking forward to next year?

I want to experience it.