Jane McAdam Freud is a sculptor, painter, medalist and great granddaughter of the founder of psychoanalysis. We managed to talk during her visit to Moscow. In an exclusive interview with Psychologies, Jane told how the granddaughter of the great Freud was brought up, why she is guided by emotions, believes in dreams and considers her great-grandfather one of the first “feminists”.
We met with Jane McAdam in Moscow, where she came to participate in the ceremony of unveiling the monument to her great-grandfather. Thanks to the Moscow Institute of Psychoanalysis, the Russian capital has joined a small list of cities that can boast a monument in honor of the famous founder of psychoanalysis. After the opening ceremony, Jane gave a lecture on Freud’s Insignia: Art and Death, Dreams and Psychoanalysis.
The speech was devoted to the collection of art objects that Sigmund Freud collected. This addiction came to him after the death of his father, in some way it helped him cope with grief. The figurines from his collection had no artistic value, they were often fakes. He was much more interested in the form, the meaning of objects. Freud managed to systematize ancient knowledge and create a whole system of psychoanalysis, in which his collection of art helped him a lot.
My whole life is based on a psychological approach
Jane drew amazing parallels between her work and the items kept by her great-grandfather. All these similarities in materials, compositions, ideas literally shocked her, because she discovered them, having already become a famous artist.
Psychologies: Какие идеи и теории Зигмунда Фрейда оказали влияние на вашу жизнь?
Джейн МакАдам Фрейд: My whole life is based on a psychological approach. I am guided not by emotions or reason, but by the laws of the psyche. I can’t list any specific ideas, but I can talk in general. I am always interested in the motivation that pushes people to commit certain acts. I’m not interested in results, more important than the cause of action. I always ask the question: “Why? Why did a person act this way and not otherwise? Why did I make this or that choice?
This approach helps a lot in relationships, facilitates mutual understanding. I can make out a moment: “You know, when I did this, and you answered it like that, it made me feel miserable.”
I listen to my dreams. In my life there were several especially important and vivid dreams that influenced the adoption of fateful decisions. I’ll give you an example. One day I dreamed that I was riding in a baby carriage and holding on to the handrails. And suddenly I realize that I can’t remove my hands, they seem to be smeared in some kind of sticky chewing gum. I try to get my hands off the railings, but as soon as I succeed, they stick to the wood and other objects that surround me. It’s like I’m in a web that I can’t get out of.
This dream had a profound effect on me. I realized that I was very dependent on my mother. It served as an impetus for the fact that I left my parents’ house early and began an independent life.
Your great-grandfather has a number of controversial ideas. For example, his theory of femininity caused a violent protest among feminists of the 60s and 70s. Your life and beliefs seem to be the exact opposite of Freud’s theory.
I do not agree that Freud did not like women. I think he was actually one of the first feminists. He constantly worked with women. Thanks to him, many of his former patients became successful psychoanalysts, such as Marie Bonaparte. He inspired them to work in this area, supported them. It is also worth considering the requirements of the time. However, even Freud’s own daughter became a very famous psychoanalyst. She was not in his shadow, he allowed her to become quite independent, which, you see, says a lot.
Freud failed to understand women
Кроме того, ему принадлежат очень важные высказывания о женщинах. Он сравнивал их с художниками, которых невозможно изучить и понять до конца. Они непостижимы, их деятельность не поддается анализу с позиции «почему». С другой стороны, благодаря сублимации у художников есть ответы на все вопросы, касающиеся бессознательного, которые мы ищем.
Due to the requirements of the Victorian era, many things he could not say directly, only indirectly. At the end of his life, Freud wrote that he could never understand women. Thus, he wanted to say that they are different, they are not like men. But this is the biggest compliment! Why do women want to be just like men?
Могли бы вы нарисовать портрет Зигмунда Фрейда, собранный из семейных воспоминаний?
I feel like I’m the only one with a real interest in his personality. Not quite an ordinary story – to grow up in the shadow of two great fathers: the founder of psychoanalysis and a portrait painter. I was not interested in just being proud of such a position, I wanted to understand what we have in common. I used these two figures as a modeling material, for example, glue, for my creativity. This is a kind of form of sublimation.
I study the past of Sigmund Freud, talk about him, create works inspired by him. I visited the house where he was born. If you know, he spent the first years of his life in Moravia, which was then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and today belongs to the Czech Republic. I studied the room in which he lived, and imagined that impressionable boy who, like a sponge, absorbed everything that surrounded him. For three years, before the family moved to Leipzig, ten of them were accommodated in a tiny room four and a half meters by two and a half. And little Sigmund Freud saw and heard absolutely everything. It seems to me that these impressions influenced his whole later life, they allowed him to comprehend the motivation of other people.
His family members slept, bathed, loved – all in the same room. The elder brother got married and his child was conceived in this very room. Here, in the morning, Sigmund’s brother Julius died.
Это самое интересное детство, которое только можно представить. Благодаря этому, я думаю, будущий основоположник психоанализа научился вслушиваться и всматриваться так пристально. Сегодня нейробиологи признают корректность теорий Фрейда. Но они не понимают, как человек мог прийти к этим выводам, не имея под рукой тех технологий, которыми располагают современные ученые. Ответ кроется в его способности слушать и наблюдать на таком глубинном уровне, который недоступен более никому. Наш с вами ритм жизни уже не позволяет следить за происходящим так внимательно, как это делал он.
If we talk about family memories, then I can tell a story from my childhood. When I was five years old, my grandparents (Ernst Ludwig Freud – the son of Sigmund Freud. – Ed.) chose a school for me, which was not far from their home, I could literally see their roof from the classroom. Every day after class, they took me to their place for tea and cakes. During these years, they were just working with the letters of Sigmund Freud and were going to release a collection in which his correspondence would be collected. Of course, they constantly discussed among themselves his ideas, patients, what worried him, the content of the letters. I was too young to understand something, I didn’t even realize who they were talking about, but I absorbed everything. Something about him fascinated me, I asked who this man was. I did not understand that he was a part of me, my great-grandfather. Grandparents never talked about him directly. But in this indirect way they introduced me to Sigmund Freud.
Your father Lucian Freud became a famous British artist. It seems that he competed with Sigmund Freud all his life, trying to surpass him. Have you ever dreamed of becoming more successful than both of them?
It’s not a popularity contest for me. Besides, I’m not a man, I don’t have a superego, you know, this narcissistic superego. I would like my work to tell about something. In my opinion, women have something to say, not to shout, but to calmly tell the viewer. Men have expressed enough, it’s time to know the world through the female gaze.
You did not have the opportunity to communicate with your great-grandfather in person. But if you had a chance to ask him a single question now, what would you ask?
I’m very shy, I probably wouldn’t ask anything. I would be scared. Understand, for me he is God. I don’t believe in God, I believe in Freud.