Claudio Naranjo, an outstanding master of Gestalt therapy, comes to Moscow with lectures and seminars, in whose works classical psychotherapy is intricately intertwined with the spiritual teachings of the peoples of the world.
In the works of Claudio Naranjo, classical psychology is intertwined with spiritual practices, giving rise to a doctrine … for which there is no name yet. But which attracts more and more supporters around the world.
Psychologies: Señor Naranjo, in times of crisis, people primarily expect concrete help, including from psychologists. How will such lofty things as love, self-knowledge, personal development help us?
Claudio Naranjo: If we talk about the crisis, then, unfortunately, it is much deeper than the economic problems that you obviously had in mind. It seems to me that our entire civilization is in a deep crisis – with its education system that reproduces obedient consumers, with its rational approach that rejects the spiritual and intuitive principle, with its severe restrictions and a distorted hierarchy of values. And if we do not change ourselves and do not teach our children to live and perceive the world differently, then no economic leaps, I am afraid, will not help. In a sense, I teach exactly this: I teach you to change, find yourself and see the world differently. But I understand perfectly what you mean. Indeed, the world is now in an economic crisis. For example, I know that suicide rates have risen sharply in Italy. I suspect that something similar is happening in many other countries. But the loss of a job or lack of money is just an excuse. If a person has the meaning of life and there is love, he will never lay hands on himself. I help people find meaning and love. I help to become happier – I don’t know how practical it is. But many businessmen, including heads of large companies, told me that my ideas and my work help them and their business. Ultimately, everything is very simple: a happy person works better than an unhappy one.
Read more:
- How to learn to listen to intuition
But is there any universal recipe for achieving happiness and love?
K.N.: Not likely, but I don’t pretend to know him. On the contrary, the SAT program I created, which is more than 20 years old, combines all the best that has been found in the world. We are working on ourselves in several directions. Firstly, it is empathy, love for one’s neighbor, the ability to experience this feeling, similar to motherly love. Another important aspect is the release of spontaneity. Our civilization is more and more like the civilization of castrati: we are taught to be content with less, to give up what could be ours. We have an animal nature, which we not only do not appreciate, but are also afraid of it in a panic, because we are accustomed to constantly fit into the framework. I consider it important to revive this beginning, to regain the ability to believe in instincts. The third direction is the ability to feel every moment, to live your present. Finally, it is important to keep a calm mind. And for this you need some detachment, the ability to refuse, including from your own desires. I call all this existential skills – by analogy, for example, with labor skills. As you can see, there are many different directions in my program – just so that each person can get what he needs.
You are talking about spontaneity, the release of animal instincts. Isn’t there a risk of releasing those dangerous and vile things that lurk in each of us?
K.N.: I don’t think instinct is dangerous. I suppose the problem is that the state, for its own peace of mind, convinced us that the animal nature is cruel and has no morals. But many thinkers have suggested that the animal nature is not necessarily so bad. After all, the most terrible predators – wolves, tigers or sharks – kill only to get food. They do not have our, human cruelty, they do not destroy anyone just like that. To declare animal instincts to be the cause of crime is too superficial a view. Rather, the evil we do is an ugly substitute for repressed instincts. It’s like the difference between sex and pornography. If we didn’t have to repress our sexuality, pornography wouldn’t exist—there wouldn’t be a need for it! Speaking of the animal principle, I mean spontaneity and naturalness – they were revered in ancient cults dedicated to Dionysus, the god of fertility, the generosity of natural forces and ecstasy. But along with the Dionysian spirit, it is important to remember the spirit of Apollo, the deity of harmony and detachment. It may seem that their influences are mutually exclusive: on the one hand – complete freedom, on the other – discipline and restraint. But in reality, they should not argue, but complement each other.
Read more:
- “Our taboos protect us”
Claudio Naranjo in Moscow
In October, Claudio Naranjo will hold open lectures and seminars in Moscow. Free admission. But since the number of places is limited, registration is required.
October 13, 17:00: open seminar “Self-knowledge around the three types of love.” Moscow, InterContinental Tverskaya 22 Hotel. Entry at: http://hse-psy.timepad.ru/event/80604
October 14, 18:30: open lecture “The Crisis of Western Civilization and the Saving Potential of a New Approach to Education”. Moscow, Prechistenka d.16, Central House of Scientists. Record at the link: http://hse-psy.timepad.ru/event/80606
His way
- 1932 Born in Valparaiso, Chile.
- 1959 Graduated from the University of Santiago and stayed there to work at the Research Center for Medical Anthropology.
- 1962-1966 Works in the USA under the guidance of the founder of Gestalt therapy, Fritz Perls.
- 1970 After the death of his son, he retired to the desert for six months and turned to the study of spiritual practices.
- 1971 Returned to science, created his own SAT program.
- 2006 The Claudio Naranjo Foundation is founded by students and followers.
And, let’s say, you don’t consider the government’s fight against drugs to be a reaction of an inert society to people’s attempts to liberate themselves?
K.N.: I happened to witness one of the most violent conflicts between fathers and children in California in the 1960s. The main drug users were, of course, young people. And young people who used marijuana or LSD suddenly turned out to be a very dangerous critic of the older generation – exceptionally tough and uncompromising. The fierce fight against drugs, it seems to me, has become, among other things, a political maneuver of the authorities, who, of course, took the side of their fathers. I think the authorities felt the real danger of the emerging counterculture – a culture that threatened the main principles of the police state, which cares first of all about its own, and not about our interests. And the war on drugs was partly a way to discredit the rebellious youth. But the same LSD, for example, appeared as a drug, the use of which opened up new horizons in psychotherapy. However, at some point, its use was banned, and all research was stopped.
Do you think it was a mistake?
K.N.: In my opinion, such a total ban was not fully justified. Let’s then ban, for example, fire. It’s also a very harmful and dangerous thing, if you spread it in the middle of the room. However, when it heats your house or when you cook food on it, you do not consider fire harmful … Many cultures, which for some reason are commonly called “primitive”, used substances that affect consciousness. But they did not develop any addiction, nor the practice of vicious use of these substances. And Mexicans, for example, do not run around the clock in the desert in search of peyote cactus. Because in the culture of the Mexican Indians there were very strict rules for the use of peyote in certain rituals and for certain purposes. The abuse of drugs that really took place in the 1960s, I think, was caused by the fact that in the West there was no culture of their use, there were no rules and legal channels for obtaining them. It would be very interesting for me to create a school where psychotherapists would learn from the same Indians the use of various substances in order to use them in therapy.
Read more:
- Encounters with the paranormal
How consistent is your interest in esotericism and occult practices with science in general and academic psychology in particular?
K.N.: To answer your question, I have to recall a scientific fact: our brain has two hemispheres. And the left one is responsible for logical, scientific thinking, and the right one can be called rather humanitarian, intuitive. So, science cannot explain intuitive phenomena, science is not able to clearly answer the question, what is consciousness. Science has nothing intelligible to tell us about good and evil. And I think that two hemispheres are given to us for a reason. We also have two eyes, each of which sees the world a little differently, and together they create a three-dimensional picture of the world. Similarly, the synthesis of the perception of the two hemispheres should give us a harmonious consciousness. But our civilization constantly refers only to the skills of one of the hemispheres. As a result, we try to approach all phenomena exclusively from the standpoint of the multiplication table. Perhaps the roots of this disproportion lie in the events of the French Revolution. Then society rebelled against the inertia and dogmas of the church and church authorities and, in contrast to them, raised pure logic and a rational approach to a pedestal. But the baby was thrown out with the water: trying to break free from the grip of religious dogmas, people also abandoned the intuitive perception of the world inherent in religion. Logic and practicality were put at the forefront. But in music or poetry, for example, there is no practical use. Why are they needed? Yes, because they help us to develop extra-logical, intuitive ways. It makes us human beings more whole. And perhaps happy.
Perhaps the lack of love that you mentioned can also be explained by this disproportion?
K.N.: Maybe. I just want to clarify what I mean. Speaking of love, I believe that we all need to learn first of all to love ourselves. Because if we can’t, how can we love someone else? And we are so suppressed by rules and restrictions, we are so ashamed of ourselves and refuse so much that it is obvious that most of us are very, very far from true love for ourselves.
In October you come to Russia for the first time, your book is published here*. Your SAT program has been successful in many countries and in many languages. Will we have the opportunity to master the SAT in Russian?
K.N.: It will depend on how my ideas are received in Russia. How my book will be received, how interested the public will be in my lectures, my words. So, it directly depends on you too. So you really try.
* “The Revolution We’ve Been Waiting For” (Klass, 2013)
SAT Program
SAT is an abbreviation of English. seekers after truth, “seekers of truth.” The name of this training and therapy program also refers to the Sanskrit sat – “true”, “existing”, “eternal”. In each of the four modules, you must attend at least one 5–10 day workshop. The main thing in the SAT program is the study of the enneagram and the disclosure of one’s potential based on it using the methods of psychotherapy and spiritual practices. SAT is very popular – including among psychotherapists, business coaches and educators.