Both on the screen and in life, for four decades now she has remained not only an icon of cinema, but also a woman who has always managed to protect her private life from prying eyes. At the time of our meeting, she nevertheless agreed to open slightly … a little.
The screen image of Deneuve comes from sources that feed our collective imagination. A wave of thick blond hair, an imperturbably beautiful face, a low voice with which she pronounces phrases where words rush and crowd each other … From her youth, from the age of 17, she plunged into the mysterious and gloomy, phantasmagoric and enchanting film worlds of the greatest directors of the era (Buñuel, Polanski, Truffaut , Demi), for us she immediately became the embodiment of the most incomprehensible part of human nature. Always ambivalent, attractive and distant at the same time, burning and chilling, obvious and elusive … That is why we, at Psychologies, have been inviting her to the editorial office, to our “Sofa” for many years. And she refused all these years – in the name of her unchanging secrecy. Has she suddenly lost her, decided to violate the “secret of Deneuve”? She comes, annoyed by something, and the first thing she refuses is water, tea and coffee – so that it becomes clear to us: she is not going to stay here for a long time. No, it’s clear that she hasn’t changed. She tries to get away from any topic that can lead to a conversation about her as a woman, and not just as an actress. Declares that he meets with journalists only in order to support his films in the press; she is not interested in psychology; She does not introspect. But how can you be offended by her for this? Her name is Catherine Deneuve, and her charm is largely due to this great secrecy of hers. Her face is motionless, her eyes do not let us go for a moment. Solid, deep, it literally attracts any look. But contrary to the desire to absolutely control herself, a gap sometimes opens in her armor: the pain of spiritual wounds that have not healed, confusion in the face of the passing time, the joy of one who lives among loved ones … Distant, but exciting, cold, but giving spiritual warmth – she is. She did not long for this meeting, but she really is here.
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DATE
- October 22, 1943 Born in Paris, in an acting family, the third of four daughters.
- 1963 Birth of Christian, son of director Roger Vadim.
- 1964 Palme d’Or at the Cannes Film Festival for “The Umbrellas of Cherbourg” by Jacques Demy.
- 1967 Death in a car accident of her sister Françoise.
- 1972 Birth of Chiara, daughter of Marcello Mastroianni.
- 1981 César Award for Best Actress in François Truffaut’s The Last Metro Train.
- 1993 César Award for Best Actress in Régis Warnier’s Indochina.
- 2011 “Beloved” (“Les Bien-aimes”) by Christophe Honore.
- 2012 Asterix and Obelix in Britain / Asterix et Obélix: Au service de Sa Majesté
Psychologies: We have long wanted to meet the woman behind the “Deneuve myth,” Catherine Dorléac…
Catherine Deneuve: I warn you that I am absolutely not going to talk about personal things! I’m only here to talk about films.
Okay, let’s talk about the movie. Do you happen to look at your old paintings?
K.D.: At one presentation, I recently watched Beauty of the Day (dir. Luis Buñuel, 1967. — Approx. ed.). And so – no, I do not review films. I don’t have enough time to watch the new films that are being released, so I won’t watch the old ones!
You don’t like meeting your own image at all?
K.D.: This is not the point, I just move on in life, forward, I prefer specifics. I act. I am not one of those who will sit and reflect on what has already been done. By the way, I’m not sure that this would allow me to continue to act …
You say that you are moving forward – while striving for complete control over both your career and your image …
K.D.: “Control”? No, I don’t particularly like that word. Well… I have to somehow control everything in my life. In life – yes, but not in the cinema, it is impossible there. There, everything depends too much on luck, chance, meeting.
One of the directors with whom you worked compared you to a screen on which the audience can project anything – their fantasies, desires, dreams – and this partly explained the secret of your talent.
K.D.: Yes, I am what a doll is to a child. The doll should not be too expressive so that the child can fantasize, ascribe to her whatever feelings he wants, make her tell her own stories … Yes, after all, my “talent”, as you put it, is largely precisely in this.
It seems that there is some cynicism in your words …
K.D.: Not at all. And I think it primarily comes from temperament. I am very moderate; I always want to “make it clear” without saying everything to the end. This is not a game, this is my nature.
How do you explain it?
K.D.: I don’t explain it to myself! I already have enough difficulty with what needs to be done; I will not further explain and analyze myself and others…
Are you saying that you don’t ask any questions about yourself and your work?
K.D.: I think about what I’m doing. At times I think about what to say, I think about my desires, about my plans – nothing more. Asking myself what significance this or that role had in my career or my destiny – no, this is not for me. When a movie is made, it belongs to those who watch it, who like it or who don’t like it. This is no longer my story.
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However, in everyday life you are confronted with what other people see in you. What image are you most often attributed to?
K.D.: An image composed of memories, joy, happiness – an image associated mainly with the films of Jacques Demy. Indeed, at the same time, I realize that in a sense I belonged to their history, the history of these people, the audience … Of course, it touches. But this feeling passes. I can’t live with all this baggage, you know? It’s too hard.
What do you do to avoid losing yourself among the images that are being projected onto you?
K.D.: I do this precisely because I refuse to immerse myself in introspection. I want to be free… at least from that. I cannot always be at the disposal of everyone and everything, this is impossible, a person can never satisfy all the expectations of others.
“From the very beginning, I learned to protect myself, for me it became a reflex”
When did you realize this?
K.D.: Very quickly, when she was among the crowds that gathered at festivals and shows. I saw that all this seething does not reflect any reality, that this is just a moment of general excitement and nothing more, and you should not let it overwhelm you. Faced with this at a very young age, I quickly learned to protect myself. It became a natural reflex for me. Besides, I have an innate taste for mystery.
Since childhood?
K.D.: Yes, when you live in a large family, you need to be able to lock your door two turns in order to have your own world. Otherwise, you will be invaded all the time.
I saw you with your sisters in childhood photos: four girls, and all are very beautiful …
K.D.: Yes, we were pretty good. Father was very proud of us.
And the mother?
K.D.: My mother was very beautiful. Truly beautiful.
And strong, I guess…
K.D.: Oh yes, to live to such an age (mother Catherine Deneuve turns 100 in September. – Approx. ed.) – you can imagine!
You also seem very strong, free …
K.D.: Yes, I am free! And if I have made a decision, then it is very, very difficult to dissuade me … Although later I may regret it.
Strength is often given to us by experienced trials … In 1971, you signed a manifesto in defense of the right to abortion, which you yourself had already experienced by that time.
K.D.: Yes, this experience was part of the life of women of my generation. Today, people don’t imagine this, they treat it as something banal, but in those days … This act is frightening in itself, but when it is also forbidden, and all this has to be endured in difficult conditions, a very strong feeling arises guilt. And the guilt is terrible! You can learn to live with it, but you cannot heal from it …
Could you have had such a feeling after your older sister Françoise died in 1967?
K.D.: No no. Not right away. But years later, I happened to say to myself: “But if she were alive, maybe she would star in this film instead of me …”
At the time of “The Girls from Rochefort” by Jacques Demy (1967), you seemed timid next to her, and she was so confident …
K.D.: She was a real actress. She studied theater arts, but I did not. I only followed in her footsteps because she insisted that we act together. Otherwise, I do not think that I would have kept on this path. No, without her, no.
The strength that is in you today, is that also her strength?
K.D.: Oh sure. When you experience such deep grief in your youth, it never leaves you again. Never. But we with her, besides being sisters, were also engaged in the same craft and were very friends … Yes, I definitely carry her in me. After all, people live with their dead too. Not to the same extent as with the living, fortunately, but still they are here with us.
You had a double bond with your sister – family kinship and profession. Just like now with your daughter Chiara Mastroianni?
K.D.: Indeed, the strongest bond I have, infused with the same camaraderie, is with my daughter. Not only because she chose this profession. It’s also a matter of character. We are very close to her.
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What about grandchildren?
K.D.: I am very connected with my family. When I’m with them, I don’t talk about cinema, I’m in a purely personal space. And in general, I talk very little about my work.
And is it really possible?
K.D.: Well, of course! I have two sisters, we talk about everything with them – about life, about … The only person with whom I talk a little about my work is one psychoanalyst friend – she perceives what I tell her, not like the rest; We are talking to her in a different way. But she is one of a kind. This silence makes it easier for me to get out of my films – and they take up a lot of space in my life.
How do you manage your time between two films?
K.D.: It depends on the circumstances. The days when I don’t have too many appointments, when I can go to the movies, see a friend – what I call normal days – that suits me just fine. But most often, unfortunately, there are “half-normal” days: when you have to do a lot of things, see a lot of people … And I also like to do nothing.
And that doesn’t scare you? Didn’t you just insist: “act”, “move forward”?
K.D.: No, but it’s hard for me. My relatives laugh at me when I say that I like to do nothing – they hold me for being hyperactive. Let’s just say, it’s easier for me to do nothing when I’m not at home, but somewhere with friends, on a plane, abroad … There – yes, I know how to do nothing and enjoy it.
You said that you still love gardening…
K.D.: Yes, this is important to me. Not only mess around in the ground; I love being in nature, it brings me peace. And it helps to re-see things in the right scale … The world of plants, the world of minerals, flowers, plants – I like everything in nature, and most of all – trees … Why? I don’t know, but it impresses me.
Once the actor Gerard Depardieu spoke of you like this: “Deneuve is the man I would like to be …”
K.D.: Yes, and I answered him: “Depardieu is a woman that I would like to be.” He is a womanly man, and I am a manly woman.
From whom do you think you got this masculinity?
K.D.: My father was quite feminine… No, I don’t know where I got it from. I only know that thanks to this character trait, I can be friends with both men and women.
“Getting old is bad! but it’s important to keep your head on your shoulders.”
The actor who works on the set is directed by the director. It’s hard to imagine how anyone can lead you.
K.D.: However, I like being led. There are actors who tend to invest too much in the game, and they need to be restrained. I’m the kind of person who tends to be less invested, so I need to be led by people I trust to lead me on.
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You will agree with the heroine of one of your latest films, who answers journalists: “They still ask me if it is unpleasant for me to grow old! Of course, I hate getting old! .. “
K.D.: Well, of course, getting old is unpleasant! Men talk less about it, because aging is not so noticeable in them and appearance is not so important for them. But still, they suffer from it, no doubt. Everyone suffers from this!
Yes, but you are another matter: for directors, including young ones, you are still desirable …
K.D.: Yes, yes, indeed; I am very lucky and I know it. But they want me in certain types of roles that fit my current age, and… still, no one likes to get old. Except children. They are in a hurry to grow up so that they can finally do this, do that. It’s okay – what do you want? It’s okay.
What do you most dislike about aging?
K.D.: Decrepitude. Fading, dilapidated, unable to do what I like, and the way I used to. And in a profession like mine, you have to accept both the fact that you are getting old and that you will be filmed in a way that is acceptable to everyone – for the character, for the veracity of the film … and for me. You can try as much as you like to get used to the idea of aging, but there are days of nothing, but there are worse, and there are more and more such days worse … (Long pause.) And then, getting old is to feel that everything goes into the void: strength ends, energy falls, the bones become thinner, the muscles disappear, the skin dries up. It’s like a slow withering… But, in the end, the most important thing is to keep your head on your shoulders! (She smiles.)
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«Катрин № 1»
Catherine Deneuve for a Soviet person was about the same as Chanel No. 5. Just as these perfumes were not so much a fragrance given to us as a symbol of prosperity abroad, so Deneuve was not a female actress, but the essence of luxurious femininity, female power that controls male instincts. And more – instincts in general. She was the eternal object of desire and embodied desire. Sublime – as in “The Umbrellas of Cherbourg”, where she is the very purity and devotion without any conditions. And the forbidden – as in Buñuel’s “Beauty of the Day”, where she boldly implemented sadomasochistic fantasies. It was Catherine Deneuve who, having adorned the poster of “Beauty of the Day” with her half-naked half-length portrait, made the female back an erotic object that excites the imagination more than even the female breast. We can say that in the minds of the Soviet viewer, she was responsible for the unconscious.
Victoria Belopolskaya
In the film L’Homme qui voulait vivre ca vie (2010) by Eric Lartigo, there is a scene where you say the phrase: “I’m dying, Paul.” I confess, I had a very strange feeling: as if it was not your heroine who said it, but you yourself …
K.D.: I also had a very strange feeling! It was very, very difficult to pronounce. And you’re right, I said it. Because such words cannot be played; they cannot come from anywhere, only from within.
Is death present in your thoughts?
K.D.: Yes. Highly.
Your own or other people?
K.D.: Both the one and the other.
How do you tame this fear?
K.D.: I do not tame it, I suffer, I mourn those who leave, I try to live without them, but each such grief leaves its mark …
In conclusion, let’s return to the beginning of our conversation. Why did Catherine Dorléac change her surname to her mother’s surname – Deneuve?
K.D.: Simply because my sister was already an actress by that time. Otherwise, I would leave mine. I don’t really like “Deneuve”: there are too closed sounds, there is not enough “Oh!” and “Ah!” I prefer my maiden name, Dorleac, it’s more open, more rounded. I have both names on my papers.
And when you introduce yourself, what do you say?
K.D.: Your last name, of course!
You mean Catherine Dorléac?
K.D.: No, Catherine Deneuve. I am always Catherine Deneuve.